Discussion:
Let's Kill Hitler review with Spoilers
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The Doctor
2011-08-28 01:22:47 UTC
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8/10 .

I loved this!!

Twists and turns that makes RTD look like an amateur.

Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.

Who are these justice time travelelrs?

Will they be back.

Hitler to be killed? History would be messed up!

And River Song going nuts in a regen scene
add to that her murderous kisses!!

So the Doctr did get River to realise who she is.

Guess what. River is explained!

As for the Doctor, what will happen?

The Silence? A religious order? Hmmm!!

Headless monks.

And will the Time Lords be back?

Still River Song is the Child of the TARDIS.

Add to that the Flesh is still about.

Something is leading to a climax.
--
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Arthur Lipscomb
2011-08-28 02:36:57 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
It was better than I thought it might be.
Post by The Doctor
Twists and turns that makes RTD look like an amateur.
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
Did they indicate that they were the *only* ones?
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed? History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives. But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
Post by The Doctor
And River Song going nuts in a regen scene
add to that her murderous kisses!!
So the Doctr did get River to realise who she is.
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Post by The Doctor
As for the Doctor, what will happen?
The Silence? A religious order? Hmmm!!
Headless monks.
And will the Time Lords be back?
Still River Song is the Child of the TARDIS.
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
Post by The Doctor
Something is leading to a climax.
The Doctor
2011-08-28 03:29:47 UTC
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Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
It was better than I thought it might be.
Post by The Doctor
Twists and turns that makes RTD look like an amateur.
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
When she was removed from Demon's Run.

The Doctor did have all summer.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
Did they indicate that they were the *only* ones?
Mother Ship is a hint.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed? History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives. But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
And 1945 Berlin.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
And River Song going nuts in a regen scene
add to that her murderous kisses!!
So the Doctr did get River to realise who she is.
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
She mind have been train to cluod her mind.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
As for the Doctor, what will happen?
The Silence? A religious order? Hmmm!!
Headless monks.
And will the Time Lords be back?
Still River Song is the Child of the TARDIS.
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
10/10 .
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Something is leading to a climax.
--
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Dano
2011-08-28 07:05:30 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
It was better than I thought it might be.
Post by The Doctor
Twists and turns that makes RTD look like an amateur.
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
Did they indicate that they were the *only* ones?
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed? History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives. But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
Post by The Doctor
And River Song going nuts in a regen scene
add to that her murderous kisses!!
So the Doctr did get River to realise who she is.
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.

==================================

Not sure that my memory serves...but was Melody not conceived on board the
Tardis? I think that's a key.
Wouter Valentijn
2011-08-28 07:24:49 UTC
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Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
Me too.

<snip>
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's
part Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
==================================
Not sure that my memory serves...but was Melody not conceived on
board the Tardis? I think that's a key.
Indeed.
At the moment of conception (the honeymoon of Amy and Rory Pond) she was
exposed to the Time Vortex.
And as she was raised as a weapon to be used against him, I'm sure the enemy
put some kind of cloak in place around the Time Lord aspect.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

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The Doctor
2011-08-28 13:03:09 UTC
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Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
Me too.
<snip>
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's
part Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
==================================
Not sure that my memory serves...but was Melody not conceived on
board the Tardis? I think that's a key.
Indeed.
At the moment of conception (the honeymoon of Amy and Rory Pond) she was
exposed to the Time Vortex.
And as she was raised as a weapon to be used against him, I'm sure the enemy
put some kind of cloak in place around the Time Lord aspect.
Call it mental training.
--
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The Doctor
2011-08-28 13:02:28 UTC
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Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
It was better than I thought it might be.
There you go.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Twists and turns that makes RTD look like an amateur.
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Probably after the Silence kipnapped Amy
and the pathcy eye took the baby away.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
Did they indicate that they were the *only* ones?
Mother ship.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed? History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives. But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
What about 1945 Berlin.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
And River Song going nuts in a regen scene
add to that her murderous kisses!!
So the Doctr did get River to realise who she is.
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Cloak trained.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
==================================
Not sure that my memory serves...but was Melody not conceived on board the
Tardis? I think that's a key.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-28 11:00:57 UTC
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Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-28 13:04:53 UTC
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Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Well there is an induction period for Gallifreyan to become Time Lords.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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john smith
2011-08-28 16:44:21 UTC
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Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!

The opening scene was good, but then - when they cut to that cheap crappy
overhead shot showing 'Doctor' written in the corn - my heart sank. I
thought the episode was Moffat's usual contrived bollocks. I couldn't give
a shit about River Song anyway... the whole thing was just so many rabbits
pulled out of hats...

Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Ross
2011-08-28 17:38:34 UTC
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Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they?  Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".

(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years. Vastra suggests that
Madame Korven and her band did further manipulation to Melody in utero
to reinforce and enhance those mutations)
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-28 18:13:36 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the way it alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Yeah, it's a fabulous analogy, except that we don't live inches from the
source of mutation. That doesn't explain how Gallyfreans were well suited
to live with life-long exposure to the time vortex in the first place,
let alone how they developed technology to manipulate it.

We don't know if regeneration came before or after.

Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Anim8rFSK
2011-08-28 20:40:52 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the way it alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Yeah, it's a fabulous analogy, except that we don't live inches from the
source of mutation. That doesn't explain how Gallyfreans were well suited
to live with life-long exposure to the time vortex in the first place,
let alone how they developed technology to manipulate it.
We don't know if regeneration came before or after.
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
The TARDIS vocal interface just said so, and he took her at her word.
No explanation beyond that.

Apparently he thinks he has another regeneration left (and there is some
limit on them still; River had it, although they didn't say what it was)
but of course he CAN'T regenerate since he's going to die in this form.

Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd had the interface be played by the
actress that WAS the TARDIS? Not that I objected to seeing Martha and
Rose again, albeit briefly. Fanwank would be that River got in and did
something.
--
"Please, I can't die, I've never kissed an Asian woman!"
Shego on "Shat My Dad Says"
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-28 22:15:42 UTC
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Post by Anim8rFSK
Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd had the interface be played by the
actress that WAS the TARDIS? Not that I objected to seeing Martha and
Rose again, albeit briefly. Fanwank would be that River got in and did
something.
Yeah, I didn't get that at all. Apparently, this week's writers didn't see
any of the shows from earlier in the season and didn't know that TARDIS
has a personality.

I was waiting for, Press One to regenerate, Two in case of a green slime
emergency, Three for gold to defeat Cybermen...
Ross
2011-08-28 23:19:55 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Anim8rFSK
Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd had the interface be played by the
actress that WAS the TARDIS?  Not that I objected to seeing Martha and
Rose again, albeit briefly.  Fanwank would be that River got in and did
something.
Yeah, I didn't get that at all. Apparently, this week's writers didn't see
any of the shows from earlier in the season and didn't know that TARDIS
has a personality.
Idris makes a big deal out of the fact that she's _not_ meant to
interact with him like that. I don't think they forgot at all; I
think they didn't want to cheapen that episode by turning around and
saying "And now the doctor can hang out with TARDIS/Idris whenever he
wants."

The reason I don't think they forgot is that I actually think the
voice interface is a *deliberate callback* to that. In 'The Doctor's
Wife', he _mentions_ the idea of building a voice interface, then at
the end, he tinkers with the TARDIS, and then at the very end, he
*tries talking to it* -- and not just as a wisftul thing, but rather
as a sort of "This thing I just did probably won't work, but I really
hope it does; let's try it"
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-28 23:56:26 UTC
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In 'The Doctor's Wife', he _mentions_ the idea of building a voice
interface, then at the end, he tinkers with the TARDIS, and then at the
very end, he *tries talking to it* -- and not just as a wisftul thing, but
rather as a sort of "This thing I just did probably won't work, but I
really hope it does; let's try it"
When nonsense starts quoting nonsense like some bad religion it's time to
start packing the suitcase.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:53:11 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Anim8rFSK
Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd had the interface be played by the
actress that WAS the TARDIS? Not that I objected to seeing Martha and
Rose again, albeit briefly. Fanwank would be that River got in and did
something.
Yeah, I didn't get that at all. Apparently, this week's writers didn't see
any of the shows from earlier in the season and didn't know that TARDIS
has a personality.
I was waiting for, Press One to regenerate, Two in case of a green slime
emergency, Three for gold to defeat Cybermen...
Well the VI was getting Scottish enough.
--
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The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:51:56 UTC
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Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the way it alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Yeah, it's a fabulous analogy, except that we don't live inches from the
source of mutation. That doesn't explain how Gallyfreans were well suited
to live with life-long exposure to the time vortex in the first place,
let alone how they developed technology to manipulate it.
We don't know if regeneration came before or after.
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
The TARDIS vocal interface just said so, and he took her at her word.
No explanation beyond that.
Apparently he thinks he has another regeneration left (and there is some
limit on them still; River had it, although they didn't say what it was)
but of course he CAN'T regenerate since he's going to die in this form.
Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd had the interface be played by the
actress that WAS the TARDIS? Not that I objected to seeing Martha and
Rose again, albeit briefly. Fanwank would be that River got in and did
something.
At least the voice interface did cinvict the Doctor.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Duggy
2011-08-28 22:47:26 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.

I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:57:54 UTC
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Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
=3D=3D=3D
=3D DUG.
=3D=3D=3D
10/10 !!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 05:33:23 UTC
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Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
Ross
2011-08-29 05:51:00 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor.  To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
What? I don't even understand what you're saying. Are you trying to
claim that it's a continuity error that they'd never mentioned before
that Judas tree poison is so deadly to time lords that it blocks the
regeneration cycle?

That's stupid.

What other things should the doctor have randomly told us could kill
him in a regeneration-proof way?

Or do you just mean that you're one of those fans who ignores the
evidence of The Movie, The Daemons, The Caves of Androzani, (Those
three all make it explicit that the Doctor will not necessarily be
able to regenerate if he is _poisoned_) Turn Left, Forest of the Dead,
The Impossible Astronaut, and a hundred thousand other examples, and
thinks that the Doctor can't die from anything so long as he's got
spare regenerations?
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 15:24:46 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
What? I don't even understand what you're saying.
Because you're a moron?
Post by Ross
Are you trying to claim that it's a continuity error that they'd never
mentioned before that Judas tree poison is so deadly to time lords that
it blocks the regeneration cycle?
That's stupid.
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?

Anim got the line correct, and I didn't: Regeneration deactivated, not
blocked. Deactivation isn't an action of a poison.
Post by Ross
What other things should the doctor have randomly told us could kill
him in a regeneration-proof way?
Or do you just mean that you're one of those fans who ignores the
evidence of The Movie, The Daemons, The Caves of Androzani, (Those
three all make it explicit that the Doctor will not necessarily be
able to regenerate if he is _poisoned_) Turn Left, Forest of the Dead,
The Impossible Astronaut, and a hundred thousand other examples, and
thinks that the Doctor can't die from anything so long as he's got
spare regenerations?
We're not going by any other scripts but the one in this episode.
Ross
2011-08-29 15:59:54 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
What? I don't even understand what you're saying.
Because you're a moron?
Post by Ross
Are you trying to claim that it's a continuity error that they'd never
mentioned before that Judas tree poison is so deadly to time lords that
it blocks the regeneration cycle?
That's stupid.
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?
What? How in the world do you get "the TARDIS didn't know about the
poison" from "You've been poisoned by Judas Tree poison. Your
regeneration ability is deactivated""? It sounds more like 'The
TARDIS knew EXACTLY HOW THE POISON WORKED."
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Anim got the line correct, and I didn't: Regeneration deactivated, not
blocked. Deactivation isn't an action of a poison.
What? Ethelyne glycol poisoning deactivates your kidneys.
Acetomenophan poisoning deactivates the liver. Neurotoxins deactivate
the nervous system.

Are you just objecting to the specific choice to use the word
"deactivate"? If they'd said "disabled", you'd have no problem?

The poison was killing the doctor. Like most poisons, it was killing
him by making bits of his body shut down. One of the first parts to
shut down was the part that lets him regenerate. This was clear as day
from the dialog. I'm sorry you were expecting this episode to be a
journal article on the action of Judas tree poison on time lord
physiology, but the rest of us were expectign an actual *narrative*.
The dialog wasn't unclear.
The Doctor
2011-08-29 19:52:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except tha=
t
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
What? I don't even understand what you're saying.
Because you're a moron?
Post by Ross
Are you trying to claim that it's a continuity error that they'd never
mentioned before that Judas tree poison is so deadly to time lords that
it blocks the regeneration cycle?
That's stupid.
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?
What? How in the world do you get "the TARDIS didn't know about the
poison" from "You've been poisoned by Judas Tree poison. Your
regeneration ability is deactivated""? It sounds more like 'The
TARDIS knew EXACTLY HOW THE POISON WORKED."
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Anim got the line correct, and I didn't: Regeneration deactivated, not
blocked. Deactivation isn't an action of a poison.
What? Ethelyne glycol poisoning deactivates your kidneys.
Acetomenophan poisoning deactivates the liver. Neurotoxins deactivate
the nervous system.
Are you just objecting to the specific choice to use the word
"deactivate"? If they'd said "disabled", you'd have no problem?
The poison was killing the doctor. Like most poisons, it was killing
him by making bits of his body shut down. One of the first parts to
shut down was the part that lets him regenerate. This was clear as day
from the dialog. I'm sorry you were expecting this episode to be a
journal article on the action of Judas tree poison on time lord
physiology, but the rest of us were expectign an actual *narrative*.
The dialog wasn't unclear.
Asparin could kill the Doctor.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 19:57:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ross
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
What? I don't even understand what you're saying.
Because you're a moron?
Post by Ross
Are you trying to claim that it's a continuity error that they'd never
mentioned before that Judas tree poison is so deadly to time lords that
it blocks the regeneration cycle?
That's stupid.
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?
What?
"what" would be you acting obtuse.
Post by Ross
How in the world do you get "the TARDIS didn't know about the
poison" from "You've been poisoned by Judas Tree poison. Your
regeneration ability is deactivated""? It sounds more like 'The
TARDIS knew EXACTLY HOW THE POISON WORKED."
Those were two statements, not one. At no point did TARDIS state the
poison both killed the current incarnation of The Doctor and prevented
future incarnations.

We've seen outside forces screw with The Doctor's regenerations before.

Again, that was phrased awkwardly. If it had been the poison, it should
have been stated differently.
Post by Ross
What?
Thinking deactivates your brain. Not playing any longer.
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:43:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
We've seen outside forces screw with The Doctor's regenerations before.
Like time travelers who are trying to kill a war criminal who can
regenerate and can throw a "sound screen" around a room.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Again, that was phrased awkwardly.
It was phrased computerly.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
If it had been the poison, it should
have been stated differently.
Maybe.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
What?
Thinking deactivates your brain. Not playing any longer.
Come back when it reactivates.

===
= DUG.
===
David Johnston
2011-08-29 16:54:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?
The TARDIS definitely knew about the poison. It's hard to say what the
Doctor knew considering that he was babbling deliriously.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Anim got the line correct, and I didn't: Regeneration deactivated, not
blocked. Deactivation isn't an action of a poison.
It isn't how a human being would refer to the action of a poison, even
though in fact many poisons do shut down or "deactivate" metabolic
functions here or there. We just don't refer to it as that because we
regard it as rude to talk about each other as if we were machines.
Needless to say, the TARDIS being a machine has a different perspective.

Now here's the thing that nags at me. The TARDIS can talk? I can think
of a lot of times when that would have been used over the last 30 years.
Or did the Doctor just install the capability and that's why it had to
be initialized?
Ross
2011-08-29 17:08:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Why didn't The Doctor know about the poison, and why didn't TARDIS know
about the poison, with regard to "deactivating regenerations"?
The TARDIS definitely knew about the poison.  It's hard to say what the
Doctor knew considering that he was babbling deliriously.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Anim got the line correct, and I didn't: Regeneration deactivated, not
blocked. Deactivation isn't an action of a poison.
It isn't how a human being would refer to the action of a poison, even
though in fact many poisons do shut down or "deactivate" metabolic
functions here or there.  We just don't refer to it as that because we
regard it as rude to talk about each other as if we were machines.
Needless to say, the TARDIS being a machine has a different perspective.
Now here's the thing that nags at me.  The TARDIS can talk? I can think
of a lot of times when that would have been used over the last 30 years.
  Or did the Doctor just install the capability and that's why it had to
be initialized?
In 'The Doctor's Wife' he toys with the idea of a voice interface so
he could interact with the TARDIS in a similar way to his interaction
with Idris. I take that to suggest that it's something he starts
working on when he's working under the console at the end of the
episode.
Duggy
2011-08-29 11:01:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor.  To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
So you're saying that Mels would not have used a poison that block
regenerations?

==
= DUG.
===
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 15:18:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
So you're saying that Mels would not have used a poison that block
regenerations?
That wasn't the line of dialogue.
The Doctor
2011-08-29 15:50:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
So you're saying that Mels would not have used a poison that block
regenerations?
That wasn't the line of dialogue.
Sort of like Time Lord cyanide
--
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http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:45:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
So you're saying that Mels would not have used a poison that block
regenerations?
That wasn't the line of dialogue.
No, it wasn't.

If you were going to use a poison to kill a Timelord would you use one
that deactivated regenerations or one that didn't?

===
= DUG.
===
Anim8rFSK
2011-08-29 14:20:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
Isn't the quote "regeneration deactivated"?
--
"Please, I can't die, I've never kissed an Asian woman!"
Shego on "Shat My Dad Says"
David Johnston
2011-08-29 16:31:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
Isn't the quote "regeneration deactivated"?
Wrong synonym for you?
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 20:00:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Anim8rFSK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Duggy
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Remind me again why Matt Smith's regeneration was blocked, except that
he had signed his contract.
Well, Mels was out to kill the Doctor. To do so would require a
method that would kill the Doctor.
I assume the poison chosen would be one that blocks regenerations.
Yeaaahhhhhh. Surely we would have heard about that at some point in
the last 40 years, since The Doctor knew what it was.
Isn't the quote "regeneration deactivated"?
Wrong synonym for you?
Why are you being your usual bitchy self? As I've noted several times,
Anim got the line right; I didn't.
john smith
2011-08-28 20:28:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".



Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!




(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years.


Exactly - "over millions of years"!



Vastra suggests that
Madame Korven and her band did further manipulation to Melody in utero
to reinforce and enhance those mutations)
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-28 22:21:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!
During conception, each gene is represented by only two complementary sequences
of DNA; any mutations at this point become mutations throughout the whole body.
If you suppose the vortex is mutagenic environment that creates mutations that
adapt to the vortex, a human conceived there could mutate in a single
generation. If the Gallifreans only exposed themselves when older, it would
require changing one germ cell out of trillions in their bodies.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
john smith
2011-08-28 23:07:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the
way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!
During conception, each gene is represented by only two complementary sequences
of DNA; any mutations at this point become mutations throughout the whole body.
If you suppose the vortex is mutagenic environment that creates mutations that
adapt to the vortex, a human conceived there could mutate in a single
generation. If the Gallifreans only exposed themselves when older, it would
require changing one germ cell out of trillions in their bodies.
Anyone can "suppose" any old bullshit if it makes them feel better!
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-28 23:16:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by john smith
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Ross
.
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the
way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!
During conception, each gene is represented by only two complementary sequences
of DNA; any mutations at this point become mutations throughout the whole body.
If you suppose the vortex is mutagenic environment that creates mutations that
adapt to the vortex, a human conceived there could mutate in a single
generation. If the Gallifreans only exposed themselves when older, it would
require changing one germ cell out of trillions in their bodies.
Anyone can "suppose" any old bullshit if it makes them feel better!
Suppose a human could isolate an DNA sequence from one cell and implant it in
the egg cell of another species.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:02:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA
the
way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!
During conception, each gene is represented by only two complementary sequences
of DNA; any mutations at this point become mutations throughout the whole body.
If you suppose the vortex is mutagenic environment that creates mutations that
adapt to the vortex, a human conceived there could mutate in a single
generation. If the Gallifreans only exposed themselves when older, it would
require changing one germ cell out of trillions in their bodies.
Anyone can "suppose" any old bull if it makes them feel better!
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
So can Douglas Noel Adams.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-28 22:48:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years.
Now you're getting it.

===
= DUG.
===
john smith
2011-08-28 23:13:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years.
Now you're getting it.

===
= DUG.
===



Getting what?
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:01:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Ross
(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years.
Now you're getting it.
It does take time for Js to get it.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:50:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
Exactly - "over many generations" - not coz their mum and dad shagged while
they were in the time vortex!
(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years.
Exactly - "over millions of years"!
Vastra suggests that
Madame Korven and her band did further manipulation to Melody in utero
to reinforce and enhance those mutations)
Will we find Korven again?
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:48:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's par=
t
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? =A0Bleh!
Yes. Exactly the same way that all humans are the result of mutation.
Random mutations, naturally selected for over many many generations.
It's called "evolution".
(River, due to being conceived in the TARDIS, suffered some kind of
mutation which has some similarity to the pattern of selective
adaptations that occurred on gallifrey as life there was exposed to
the untempered schism over millions of years. Vastra suggests that
Madame Korven and her band did further manipulation to Melody in utero
to reinforce and enhance those mutations)
They are mutated into Time Lords via the vortex.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Andy Leighton
2011-08-28 19:23:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100,
Post by john smith
Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Hmm, did you see Outcasts?
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
john smith
2011-08-28 20:29:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100,
Post by john smith
Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Hmm, did you see Outcasts?
No, it looked shit. Why? Was his acting crap in that?
Post by Andy Leighton
--
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
Andy Leighton
2011-08-28 23:24:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:29:22 +0100,
Post by john smith
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100,
Post by john smith
Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Hmm, did you see Outcasts?
No, it looked shit. Why? Was his acting crap in that?
Yeah, it was pretty wooden. But a number of the main cast put in
poor performances.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:49:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100,
Post by john smith
Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Hmm, did you see Outcasts?
NIGHTMARE!!!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Monsieur Tabernac
2011-08-28 21:00:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100, "john smith"
Post by john smith
The opening scene was good, but then - when they cut to that cheap crappy
overhead shot showing 'Doctor' written in the corn - my heart sank. I
thought the episode was Moffat's usual contrived bollocks. I couldn't give
a shit about River Song anyway... the whole thing was just so many rabbits
pulled out of hats...
I think the problem I have with much of SM's Who is that I don't care
at all about River, Rory, Amy or their miserable baby so all of this
"drama" leaves me cold. However, I can see how viewers could be
greatly enjoying it all, as long as they cared about the characters.
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-29 00:02:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Monsieur Tabernac
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:44:21 +0100, "john smith"
Post by john smith
The opening scene was good, but then - when they cut to that cheap crappy
overhead shot showing 'Doctor' written in the corn - my heart sank. I
thought the episode was Moffat's usual contrived bollocks. I couldn't
give a shit about River Song anyway... the whole thing was just so many
rabbits pulled out of hats...
I think the problem I have with much of SM's Who is that I don't care
at all about River, Rory, Amy or their miserable baby so all of this
"drama" leaves me cold. However, I can see how viewers could be
greatly enjoying it all, as long as they cared about the characters.
The parents are probably watching it because the kids are watching it, who
are watching it because the parents are watching it.

That and a vanilla audience who get their shows from the idiot box in the
corner with the big switch don't have other choices.

And the BBC licence fee war chest and wall to wall advertising.

Doctor Who is just Top Gear for nerds.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-28 22:07:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by john smith
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Everyone after the primorial ooze is the result of mutation.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:52:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by john smith
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
Everyone after the primorial ooze is the result of mutation.
Good City of Death.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-28 22:39:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they?  Bleh!
All humans are the result of mutation. And all plants and animals.

Oh. You're one of those. It must really annoy you when the Doctor
travels back more than 5,000 years.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:57:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? =A0Bleh!
All humans are the result of mutation. And all plants and animals.
Oh. You're one of those. It must really annoy you when the Doctor
travels back more than 5,000 years.
LOL!! john msith is evolutionist. I am Creationist.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 05:34:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they?  Bleh!
All humans are the result of mutation. And all plants and animals.
Oh. You're one of those. It must really annoy you when the Doctor
travels back more than 5,000 years.
Er, 5771.
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:48:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by john smith
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
Why should she be part Time Lord? The Vortex alterred her human DNA the way it
alterred Gallyfrean DNA into Time Lords.
So all Time Lords are the result of mutation now, are they? Bleh!
The opening scene was good, but then - when they cut to that cheap crappy
overhead shot showing 'Doctor' written in the corn - my heart sank. I
thought the episode was Moffat's usual contrived bollocks. I couldn't give
pulled out of hats...
Thank God next week's episode is a stand-alone story. It looks nice and
creepy, plus it has that newish actor Daniel Mays ("Red Riding", "Ashes to
Ashes", "The Street") playing the dad. At least he can act...
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Rate it out of 10 light Aga and I did.

I like it and made sense of it.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
solar penguin
2011-08-29 20:56:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Doctor
Rate it out of 10 light Aga and I did.
I rate it 3 light Agas and 1 dark Aga.
cloud dreamer
2011-08-28 11:59:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler then placed with adoptive
parents near Amy....by whom remains the question.
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
Did they indicate that they were the *only* ones?
No. They are not alone.
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
They explained it because she was conceived aboard the TARDIS.


Moffat is pure genius.

..
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-28 13:12:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Moffat is pure genius.
Sorry, I missed the memo on that one.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
Duggy
2011-08-28 22:36:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler
Can I just say, River claimed the the regenerating child was a
toddler, but she was older than that.
Post by cloud dreamer
then placed with adoptive
parents near Amy....by whom remains the question.
That assumes they recaptured Mels (which I assume they did).
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?

===
= DUG.
===
john smith
2011-08-28 23:00:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?

===
= DUG.
===



An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls

Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'

And the 'tesselection' effect was pretty shoddy-looking too. In fact, the
whole episode looked cheap and shoddy. The sets were lame, and don't even
get me started on the hairdryer antibodies inside the tesselector...
Duggy
2011-08-28 23:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno.  They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
An "interesting idea"?  Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
No, but I thought of a Eddy Murphy film I didn't watch.

The robot body was a stupid idea. The time travelling Justice
Department with a mothership was, especially as a precursor to the
Time Agency...

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:02:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. =A0They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
=3D=3D=3D
An "interesting idea"? =A0Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
No, but I thought of a Eddy Murphy film I didn't watch.
The robot body was a stupid idea. The time travelling Justice
Department with a mothership was, especially as a precursor to the
Time Agency...
They might be back.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Arthur Lipscomb
2011-08-29 03:25:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
No, but I thought of a Eddy Murphy film I didn't watch.
The robot body was a stupid idea.
So is filling it with autonomous killing machines and not checking the
date before beaming down to assassinate the target.

The time travelling Justice
Post by Duggy
Department with a mothership was, especially as a precursor to the
Time Agency...
I missed the line about the mothership. They seemed like rogue group
using their new-found time travel abilities to enact vengeance.

It sort of reminded me of The Inquisitor from Red Dwarf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquisitor_%28Red_Dwarf%29
Duggy
2011-08-29 11:00:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Duggy
The robot body was a stupid idea.
So is filling it with autonomous killing machines and not checking the
date before beaming down to assassinate the target.
The time travelling Justice
Post by Duggy
Department with a mothership was, especially as a precursor to the
Time Agency...
I missed the line about the mothership.  They seemed like rogue group
using their new-found time travel abilities to enact vengeance.
Don't know about rogue. The "Justice Department" made them sound like
an Earth government group.

Time Travel what should we do with that? Remember all the war crimes
stuff we couldn't get done in the past - let's do that.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
It sort of reminded me of The Inquisitor from Red Dwarf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquisitor_%28Red_Dwarf%29
If you like.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:02:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
No, but I thought of a Eddy Murphy film I didn't watch.
The robot body was a stupid idea.
So is filling it with autonomous killing machines and not checking the
date before beaming down to assassinate the target.
The time travelling Justice
Post by Duggy
Department with a mothership was, especially as a precursor to the
Time Agency...
I missed the line about the mothership. They seemed like rogue group
using their new-found time travel abilities to enact vengeance.
It sort of reminded me of The Inquisitor from Red Dwarf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquisitor_%28Red_Dwarf%29
That one brings up funny memories.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-28 23:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
= DUG.
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
Also used in the beginning of the Airtight Garage of Jerry Cornelius.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Jerry Brown
2011-08-28 23:42:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:00:34 +0100, "john smith"
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
= DUG.
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
This idea has surfaced a few times since then.

Viz did a strip a couple of years ago about David Beckham being
operated by a crew of mice inside his head, while Victoria has budgies
instead.

And there was Herman's Head in the nineties:
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101115/>, and "Meet Dave"
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765476/> in 2008.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:05:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Brown
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:00:34 +0100, "john smith"
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
= DUG.
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
This idea has surfaced a few times since then.
Viz did a strip a couple of years ago about David Beckham being
operated by a crew of mice inside his head, while Victoria has budgies
instead.
David has to get his wife for a harlot-shop borthel.

After all, Man U, Man C, Liverpoool, Everton , Birm c, Aston V,
Sheff U, Sheff W ,and Millwall players frequent brothels for
a wife.
Post by Jerry Brown
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101115/>, and "Meet Dave"
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765476/> in 2008.
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:59:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
===
= DUG.
===
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
And the 'tesselection' effect was pretty shoddy-looking too. In fact, the
whole episode looked cheap and shoddy. The sets were lame, and don't even
get me started on the hairdryer antibodies inside the tesselector...
That is your take.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Adam H. Kerman
2011-08-29 05:37:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by john smith
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
When I was a kid, I remember a novel about a boy who thought he heard
an adult voice, as his conscience, coming from somewhere in his abdomen.
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:04:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by john smith
An "interesting idea"? Did you never read the "Numskulls" story which
started in "The Beano" in 1962?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numskulls
Quote: 'The strip is about some tiny human like creatures that live inside
the head of Edd Case (a pun on head case), a boy, and control his actions.'
When I was a kid, I remember a novel about a boy who thought he heard
an adult voice, as his conscience, coming from somewhere in his abdomen.
Anything to do with js?
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:59:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler
Can I just say, River claimed the the regenerating child was a
toddler, but she was older than that.
Well the child regenerated how many times?
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
then placed with adoptive
parents near Amy....by whom remains the question.
That assumes they recaptured Mels (which I assume they did).
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Got you.
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
Quite a bit.
Post by Duggy
=3D=3D=3D
=3D DUG.
=3D=3D=3D
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Ross
2011-08-29 00:05:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did she
come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler
Can I just say, River claimed the the regenerating child was a
toddler, but she was older than that.
I think she said she regenerated _into_ a toddler, not that she had
been a toddler at the time.
Wouter Valentijn
2011-08-29 20:40:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did
she come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler
Brainwashed since the day she was a baby.
Post by Duggy
Can I just say, River claimed the the regenerating child was a
toddler, but she was older than that.
When did River say 'toddler'?
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
then placed with adoptive
parents near Amy....by whom remains the question.
That assumes they recaptured Mels (which I assume they did).
Why would they need to recapture Mels?
They had her all the time and made her their agent.
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Who are these justice time travelelrs?
New guys.
The wrist-bands were very early-Time Agency looking.
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Probably.
Dunno. They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
Stuff like they did now? ;-)
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.nksf.scifics.com/startrek.html

http://www.zeppodunsel.blogspot.com/ (NKSF TV Tips Blog)

Giles: "I'd like to test that theory."
'Buffy the Vampire Slayer 6x21: Two To Go.'

liam=mail
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:43:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents? Where did
she come from? At what point was she brainwashed.
Obviously she was brainwashed as a toddler
Brainwashed since the day she was a baby.
I've never found brainwashing babies that effective.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Can I just say, River claimed the the regenerating child was a
toddler, but she was older than that.
When did River say 'toddler'?
Sorry, she said "Last time I did this I ended up a toddler..."

My bad.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Post by cloud dreamer
then placed with adoptive
parents near Amy....by whom remains the question.
That assumes they recaptured Mels (which I assume they did).
Why would they need to recapture Mels?
To keep up the reprogramming.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
They had her all the time and made her their agent.
Exactly.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Dunno.  They're an interesting idea... but... what can they do in a
Doctor Who story?
Stuff like they did now? ;-)
Try to kill war criminals and have the Doctor stop them?

That worked this time as a subplot... how many more times can you do
that?

===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
2011-08-28 22:31:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents?
Maybe he was raised by an aunt with an eye-patch.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
 Where did she come from?
Amy's vagina.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
 At what point was she brainwashed.
Either as a small child between her birth (A Good Man Goes to War) and
her escape from the Silence (The Impossible Astronaut) or after they
found her again.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed?  History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives.  But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
The fact that they were on their way to his office not his bunker
should have been the biggest give away.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The baby Melody wasn't really Melody she was a Ganger.
That leaves the girl in the space suit and Mels that he didn't detect
and they were only part Timelord.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?

===
= DUG.
===
Arthur Lipscomb
2011-08-28 23:00:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
Post by Duggy
The baby Melody wasn't really Melody she was a Ganger.
That leaves the girl in the space suit and Mels that he didn't detect
and they were only part Timelord.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s. Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
cloud dreamer
2011-08-28 23:02:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Who did the deed on their wedding night....inside the Tardis.

..
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:00:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Who did the deed on their wedding night....inside the Tardis.
..
And then there is the spaceship.
--
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Duggy
2011-08-29 01:47:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep.  All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.

She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord.  When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
 Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.

===
= DUG.
===
Andy Leighton
2011-08-29 10:30:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep.  All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.

* Presumably because the TARDIS knew that River had to be made in
order to save the Doctor at some point in the future.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
Duggy
2011-08-29 11:05:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep.  All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human.  The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor.  Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.

She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:07:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. =A0The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. =A0Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
2 parents with on environment.
--
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Ross
2011-08-29 15:38:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep.  All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human.  The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor.  Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents.  Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA.  One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
===
= DUG.
===
And the TARDIS is the Doctor's wife, therefore he's snogged his own
stepdaughter.

And River is assumed to also be the Doctor's wife, therefore the
Doctor is a bigamist, and also Rory and Amy are his in-laws.

And some people complained about RTD promoting nontraditional
lifestyles!
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:43:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
And the TARDIS is the Doctor's wife, therefore he's snogged his own
stepdaughter.
And River is assumed to also be the Doctor's wife, therefore the
Doctor is a bigamist, and also Rory and Amy are his in-laws.
And some people complained about RTD promoting nontraditional
lifestyles!
His mother in-law tried to have sex with him.

===
= DUG.
===
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-30 04:11:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Ross
And the TARDIS is the Doctor's wife, therefore he's snogged his own
stepdaughter.
And River is assumed to also be the Doctor's wife, therefore the
Doctor is a bigamist, and also Rory and Amy are his in-laws.
And some people complained about RTD promoting nontraditional
lifestyles!
His mother in-law tried to have sex with him.
So what you're saying is they are all Conservative Christians (TM). [1]





-----------
[1] Any similarity to any actual Christians, living or dead, is unintended and
coincidental.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-30 14:13:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Ross
And the TARDIS is the Doctor's wife, therefore he's snogged his own
stepdaughter.
And River is assumed to also be the Doctor's wife, therefore the
Doctor is a bigamist, and also Rory and Amy are his in-laws.
And some people complained about RTD promoting nontraditional
lifestyles!
His mother in-law tried to have sex with him.
=3D=3D=3D
=3D DUG.
=3D=3D=3D
That's bad.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Wouter Valentijn
2011-08-29 20:49:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. It
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thanks
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider.
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.nksf.scifics.com/startrek.html

http://www.zeppodunsel.blogspot.com/ (NKSF TV Tips Blog)

Giles: "I'd like to test that theory."
'Buffy the Vampire Slayer 6x21: Two To Go.'

liam=mail
The Doctor
2011-08-29 22:29:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. It
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thanks
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider.
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
That's plausible.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-30 00:13:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. It
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thanks
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider.
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
So was Melody a child of the sixties and a child of the twenty-teens?
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-30 02:11:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Duggy
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. It
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thanks
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider.
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
So was Melody a child of the sixties and a child of the twenty-teens?
She regenerated very young.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:43:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents.  Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA.  One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. It
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thanks
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider.
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
Now you're getting it.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-30 14:11:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
She has 3 parents. =A0Two human parents Rory & Amy who supplied human
DNA. =A0One TARDIS that supplied Timelord DNA.
She is the child of Rory.
She is the child of Amy.
She is the child of the TARDIS.
Not exactly.
Traveling on board the TARDIS baby Pond was exposed to the Time Vortex. I=
t
Post by Wouter Valentijn
is in /that/ sence she is a child of the TARDIS. A Mutant or Mutate thank=
s
Post by Wouter Valentijn
to that exposure. Like Peter Parker being bitten by a radio-active spider=
.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Or Banner exposed to the blast of the Gamma bomb. They would be called
'children of the atom'.
Now you're getting it.
Thanks for waking someone up.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:06:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:47:07 -0700 (PDT),
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what.  River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep.  All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
No, both her parents are human. The "child of the TARDIS" line is
mainly a metaphor. Whilst the TARDIS could well have had a hand
in exposing the unborn Melody (either at point of conception or
later during the pregnancy) to the vortex and thus have a direct
hand in the production of River* that doesn't detract from whose
egg and whose sperm it was.
* Presumably because the TARDIS knew that River had to be made in
order to save the Doctor at some point in the future.
Then she was exposed to the Time Vortex to make her TImeLordish enough.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:00:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Marcus L. Rowland
2011-08-29 15:43:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Doctor
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
--
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www.forgottenfutures.org
www.forgottenfutures.co.uk
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
Diana: Warrior Princess & Elvis: The Legendary Tours
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The Doctor
2011-08-29 15:54:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marcus L. Rowland
Post by The Doctor
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
More like encompass and forget.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Michael Bowker
2011-08-29 18:13:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marcus L. Rowland
In article
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
They can probably say "SHHHH!". Like Librarians.
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-30 00:15:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Bowker
Post by Marcus L. Rowland
In article
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
They can probably say "SHHHH!". Like Librarians.
Librarians can be dangerous. Ask Rick O'Connell about that.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:49:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Marcus L. Rowland
In article
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
They can probably say "SHHHH!".   Like Librarians.
Librarians can be dangerous. Ask Rick O'Connell about that.
Silence in the Library.

Or an agent of the Silence in The Library.

===
= DUG.
===
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-30 04:08:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Marcus L. Rowland
In article
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. =A0All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
Post by Duggy
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The Master had used up all of his regenerations and remained a Time
Lord. =A0When the Doctor said if any of his people were still alive
anywhere in the universe he could sense them, I'm sure he included
Timelords that have reached that last regeneration as well.
What did he say about Humans with the power to regenerate?
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
The aliens
Who said they were aliens? They may have been native to Earth.
that have been running earth behind the scenes since the dawn
of time
For a long time. The Earth wasn't around at the Dawn of Time.
and would have still been running Earth in the 1930s.
Yes. What about them?
=A0Not that
they'd ever been seen before so no reason to expect they'll ever be seen
again other than the fact the Doctor didn't really defeat them and they
still exist in full force in all earlier timelines.
Once seen they are forgotten.
Who are the order Order of the Silence?
The first rule of the Order of the Silence is that you don't talk...
They can probably say "SHHHH!".   Like Librarians.
Librarians can be dangerous. Ask Rick O'Connell about that.
Silence in the Library.
Or an agent of the Silence in The Library.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120616/quotes

Evelyn: Look, I... I may not be an explorer, or an adventurer, or a
treasure-seeker, or a gunfighter, Mr. O'Connell, but I am proud of what I am.
Rick: And what is that?
Evelyn: I... am a librarian.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
john smith
2011-08-29 16:52:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.

She is the Child of the TARDIS.

________________________________________________________________

Yeah - with two human parents. Why are you so obtuse?
cloud dreamer
2011-08-29 16:56:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents. Why are you so obtuse?
The implication is that the TARDIS also contributed to the child's DNA.

Pay attention to the episode AGMGTW. It's explained.

..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us
The Doctor
2011-08-29 19:57:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents. Why are you so obtuse?
The implication is that the TARDIS also contributed to the child's DNA.
Pay attention to the episode AGMGTW. It's explained.
10/10 .
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
David Johnston
2011-08-29 16:58:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents. Why are you so obtuse?
So she had three parents. Is there something odd about that?
The Doctor
2011-08-29 19:56:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents. Why are you so obtuse?
Get with the programme.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-30 03:43:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents.  Why are you so obtuse?
And a TARDIS.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-30 14:12:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Guess what. River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
Yep. All I recall from that is both of her parents are human.
Pay more attention next time.
She is the Child of the TARDIS.
________________________________________________________________
Yeah - with two human parents. =A0Why are you so obtuse?
And a TARDIS.
For the environment.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-28 23:56:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents?
Maybe he was raised by an aunt with an eye-patch.
Nope . Mark One was abadonned in the USA and regenerated in 1970.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
=A0Where did she come from?
Amy's vagina.
You socre 0/10 for comprehension.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
=A0At what point was she brainwashed.
Either as a small child between her birth (A Good Man Goes to War) and
her escape from the Silence (The Impossible Astronaut) or after they
found her again.
Some time between AGMGtW and Impoosible Astronaut a la Mel Pond-Williams.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Will they be back.
Hitler to be killed? =A0History would be messed up!
They said they took people at the end of their lives. =A0But how
incomplete are their records if they couldn't tell the difference
between 1938 Berlin and 1944 Berlin?
The fact that they were on their way to his office not his bunker
should have been the biggest give away.
Something was wrong.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Guess what. =A0River is explained!
I'm still not clear on how she's part Time Lord
Did you watch "A Good Man Goes to War"?
That explains a lot.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The baby Melody wasn't really Melody she was a Ganger.
That leaves the girl in the space suit and Mels that he didn't detect
and they were only part Timelord.
REcall the Doctor is 'The last of the Time Lords'.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Add to that the Flesh is still about.
In 1938 so were the Silence.
The alien-looking things or the movement?
Both.
Post by Duggy
=3D=3D=3D
=3D DUG.
=3D=3D=3D
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Ross
2011-08-29 00:00:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
Who would have thought that cousin MEl was Amy and Rory's daughter.
I know she said Amy raised her, but who were her parents?
Maybe he was raised by an aunt with an eye-patch.
Given that Mel is exceptional, there's no reason to assume she
necessarily was raised by _anyone_. She could have just turned up in
Amy's hometown, used some of her advanced skills and knowledge to
fabricate the proper paperwork and bank accounts, and said "Yeah, my
dad's out of town a lot," quite a few times. Seen it a million times
in children's adventure movies, where it usually has *way* less
plausible explanations than "She's a genetically modified superhuman
from the future with time lord powers and the backing of a powerful
secret organization that has the power to implant powerful hypnotic
suggestions in anyone they want." If Mel is indeed the incarnation
immediately following the regeneration we see, then despite her
appearance, she's been in that body for 30 years by the time of the
Young Amelia scenes.

Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
ever recaptured after the regeneration we see in Day of the Moon:
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives her
issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if leaving
her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think she's in
control of her own life.
Post by Duggy
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
or why since she's part
Time Lord the Doctor couldn't sense her.
River Song has already given up her regenerations every time we've
seen her, so she's no longer a Timelord.
The baby Melody wasn't really Melody she was a Ganger.
That leaves the girl in the space suit and Mels that he didn't detect
and they were only part Timelord.
The only time he meets the girl in the space suit is as his older
doomed self, and that Doctor is "in on it" and already knows the
solution (If, indeed, she's really in the suit at that point. The
astronaut can't logically be the same Mel from the corresponding point
in her life as the one who forces the Doctor to take them back to kill
Hitler, since that Mel doesn't know the Doctor on sight yet, nor does
she notice that she's already killed the Doctor once (Seems like the
sort of thing she'd brag about)). When Mel reveals who she is in
Hitler's office, it seems like the Doctor had already worked it out by
then. So perhaps he does sense her at these times.

That said, I'm more inclined to say "Because she's not actually a
timelord, but rather a human with some common traits"
The Doctor
2011-08-29 00:06:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There you go. I get this started on a positive spin and the thread takes off
like a rocket.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-29 00:07:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives her
issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if leaving
her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think she's in
control of her own life.
So Doctor Who is porn for girls? Shouldn't they be off playing with ponies
or watching Coronation Street because Moffat is really screwing things up
twisting everything to that narrow an audience.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
David Johnston
2011-08-29 00:10:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives her
issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if leaving
her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think she's in
control of her own life.
So Doctor Who is porn for girls?
There is nothing in what you are responding to which suggests that
Doctor Who is porn for girls.
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-29 00:30:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives her
issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if leaving
her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think she's in
control of her own life.
So Doctor Who is porn for girls?
There is nothing in what you are responding to which suggests that Doctor
Who is porn for girls.
Then you don't remember much about Moffat's design objectives or know much
about girls do you?
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-29 01:27:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives her
issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if leaving
her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think she's in
control of her own life.
So Doctor Who is porn for girls?
There is nothing in what you are responding to which suggests that Doctor
Who is porn for girls.
Then you don't remember much about Moffat's design objectives or know much
about girls do you?
So teach us about girls and their pornography.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
Charles E. Hardwidge
2011-08-29 01:35:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by David Johnston
Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
she's already been programmed to kill the Doctor, but now she's left
to fend for herself for years, which, to put it very mildly, gives
her issues. I don't know if they "fail" to recapture her, or if
leaving her on her own is actually part of the plan, to let her think
she's in control of her own life.
So Doctor Who is porn for girls?
There is nothing in what you are responding to which suggests that
Doctor Who is porn for girls.
Then you don't remember much about Moffat's design objectives or know
much about girls do you?
So teach us about girls and their pornography.
Are you paying by cash or cheque?
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
Duggy
2011-08-29 01:51:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross
Given that Mel is exceptional, there's no reason to assume she
necessarily was raised by _anyone_.
True.
Post by Ross
If Mel is indeed the incarnation
immediately following the regeneration we see,
She says the last time she did that she was a toddler (although she
was clearly older than that in the regen scene)
Post by Ross
then despite her
appearance, she's been in that body for 30 years by the time of the
Young Amelia scenes.
Or time travel is involved.
Post by Ross
Based on what we know so far, I don't currently think that she was
I don't think we know enough to say one way of the other.
Post by Ross
Post by Duggy
That leaves the girl in the space suit and Mels that he didn't detect
and they were only part Timelord.
The only time he meets the girl in the space suit is as his older
doomed self,
No. He meets someone in the space suit, we don't know who yet.
Post by Ross
and that Doctor is "in on it" and already knows the
solution
True.
Post by Ross
(If, indeed, she's really in the suit at that point.
True. It could be Melody, Mels, River, The Doctor, anyone else or an
empty suit.
Post by Ross
When Mel reveals who she is in
Hitler's office, it seems like the Doctor had already worked it out by
then. So perhaps he does sense her at these times.
He implies that he didn't work it out until the regen began.

Rule #1.
Post by Ross
That said, I'm more inclined to say "Because she's not actually a
timelord, but rather a human with some common traits"
Agreed.

===
= DUG.
===
Ubiquitous
2011-08-29 00:18:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
--
"If Barack Obama isn't careful, he will become the Jimmy Carter of the
21st century."
James Kuyper
2011-08-29 01:21:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
Title to the contrary notwithstanding, this story was not about
attempting to change history by killing Hitler. It wasn't even about
attempting to change history by killing Melody Pond - the "Justice" team
made it clear that they wait until the end of the life of a criminal
before extracting them from the time stream for punishment. Given that
policy, it's not entirely clear what their objectives actually were at
that time and place; neither of their targets was slated to die any time
soon.
--
James Kuyper
The Doctor
2011-08-29 01:31:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
Title to the contrary notwithstanding, this story was not about
attempting to change history by killing Hitler. It wasn't even about
attempting to change history by killing Melody Pond - the "Justice" team
made it clear that they wait until the end of the life of a criminal
before extracting them from the time stream for punishment. Given that
policy, it's not entirely clear what their objectives actually were at
that time and place; neither of their targets was slated to die any time
soon.
--
James Kuyper
Moffat is good for twists and ironies.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Jerry Brown
2011-08-29 09:40:20 UTC
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:21:01 -0400, James Kuyper
Post by James Kuyper
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
Title to the contrary notwithstanding, this story was not about
attempting to change history by killing Hitler. It wasn't even about
attempting to change history by killing Melody Pond - the "Justice" team
made it clear that they wait until the end of the life of a criminal
before extracting them from the time stream for punishment.
Similarly 2000 AD had a story with Johnny Alpha retrieving Hitler just
before his death (and leaving a duplicate body behind IIRC), and
taking him back to the future to serve hard labour for his remaining
life.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
john smith
2011-08-29 16:55:54 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:21:01 -0400, James Kuyper
Post by James Kuyper
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
Title to the contrary notwithstanding, this story was not about
attempting to change history by killing Hitler. It wasn't even about
attempting to change history by killing Melody Pond - the "Justice" team
made it clear that they wait until the end of the life of a criminal
before extracting them from the time stream for punishment.
Similarly 2000 AD had a story with Johnny Alpha retrieving Hitler just
before his death (and leaving a duplicate body behind IIRC), and
taking him back to the future to serve hard labour for his remaining
life.
Shicklegruber Grab

"The



"The Shicklegruber Grab"! That's a classic Strontium Dog story!

http://www.2000ad.org/thrillpower/dcstrontyearlycases.html
Post by Jerry Brown
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Duggy
2011-08-29 10:41:25 UTC
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Post by Ross
Given that
policy, it's not entirely clear what their objectives actually were at
that time and place; neither of their targets was slated to die any time
soon.
It seems they stuffed up the date on Hitler. Hence the line about
1938 being too early.

===
= DUG.
===
China Blue Tip Wrench
2011-08-29 01:23:36 UTC
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Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
If you make a few assumptions, the biggie being time travel, we can be our own
Heaven and Hell. Suppose in the future we learn time travel, immortality for
ourselves and the universe, then we can travel backwards and replace each person
a nanosecond before they die with a dead constructed body. They can heal them
and let them live forever in company of humans (Heaven, except for people who
say Hell is other people), or torment them for their crimes for ever.

The justice agents seem to be partially that, torturing people for their crimes
at the end of their lives.
--
I remember finding out about you, | How to loosen bolts with a hammer.
Everyday my mind is all around you,| I'm whoever you want me to be.
Looking out from my lonely room | Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Day after day. | At least I can stay in character.
Celle est une langue. C'est francais et tres, tres sexuel.
The Doctor
2011-08-29 01:31:48 UTC
Reply
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Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
If you make a few assumptions, the biggie being time travel, we can be our own
Heaven and Hell. Suppose in the future we learn time travel, immortality for
ourselves and the universe, then we can travel backwards and replace each person
a nanosecond before they die with a dead constructed body. They can heal them
and let them live forever in company of humans (Heaven, except for people who
say Hell is other people), or torment them for their crimes for ever.
The justice agents seem to be partially that, torturing people for their crimes
at the end of their lives.
Also seems to involve in history from the future.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Ross
2011-08-29 01:58:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by China Blue Tip Wrench
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by The Doctor
8/10 .
I loved this!!
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
If you make a few assumptions, the biggie being time travel, we can be our own
Heaven and Hell. Suppose in the future we learn time travel, immortality for
ourselves and the universe, then we can travel backwards and replace each person
a nanosecond before they die with a dead constructed body. They can heal them
and let them live forever in company of humans (Heaven, except for people who
say Hell is other people), or torment them for their crimes for ever.
The justice agents seem to be partially that, torturing people for their crimes
at the end of their lives.
They have a torture ray and the ability to mindwipe people. It could
well be that their MO is not to kill these criminals, but rather to
just stalk them and, whenever no one's watching, zap them with the
torture ray for ten minutes, then mindwipe them.

Not an especially "justice"-flavored kind of justice, but it would
certainly be popular with the "Tough-on-crime" types who seem to think
that the point of the penal system is to indulge society's sadistic
side by causing pain to someone judged "deserving".

But I'm wondering: perhaps the reason that they showed up "early" to
go after Hitler is that Mel's attempt to just murder Hitler on a lark
caused some kind of ambiguity in the timestream. Like their records
temporarily shifted to claim that Hitler had been shot by Melody Pond
in '39, so they went in to get him first, but their records shifted
back when their own interference changed the order of events so that
Mel got shot instead.

I wouldn't expect Moffatt to do that sort of complex paradox thing for
a minor point like this, but it's a kinda neat possibility I think.
Hulahoop
2011-08-29 03:05:23 UTC
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Post by Ross
I wouldn't expect Moffatt to do that sort of complex paradox thing for
a minor point like this, but it's a kinda neat possibility I think.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Moffat not to do a complex paradox thing!

I think you may be in a minority with that belief! :-)

Regards

Ged
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:03:49 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Ross
I wouldn't expect Moffatt to do that sort of complex paradox thing for
a minor point like this, but it's a kinda neat possibility I think.- Hide=
quoted text -
Post by Ross
- Show quoted text -
Moffat not to do a complex paradox thing!
I think you may be in a minority with that belief! :-)
Regards
Ged
Moffatt is going his best to keep things logical.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
James Kuyper
2011-08-29 10:50:23 UTC
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On 08/28/2011 09:58 PM, Ross wrote:
...
Post by Ross
But I'm wondering: perhaps the reason that they showed up "early" to
go after Hitler is that Mel's attempt to just murder Hitler on a lark
caused some kind of ambiguity in the timestream. Like their records
temporarily shifted to claim that Hitler had been shot by Melody Pond
in '39, so they went in to get him first, but their records shifted
back when their own interference changed the order of events so that
Mel got shot instead.
The problem with that theory is that Hitler's crimes committed before
1939 were fairly minor league, hardly worthy of their attention.
--
James Kuyper
Duggy
2011-08-29 11:06:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
...
Post by Ross
But I'm wondering: perhaps the reason that they showed up "early" to
go after Hitler is that Mel's attempt to just murder Hitler on a lark
caused some kind of ambiguity in the timestream. Like their records
temporarily shifted to claim that Hitler had been shot by Melody Pond
in '39, so they went in to get him first, but their records shifted
back when their own interference changed the order of events so that
Mel got shot instead.
The problem with that theory is that Hitler's crimes committed before
1939 were fairly minor league, hardly worthy of their attention.
Maybe the computer was tracking Mels and they just saw Nazi Germany
and assumed Hitler was the target.

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:01:32 UTC
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Here is a question: Can this justice League see the parasitic silence?
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
Duggy
2011-08-29 01:46:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.

===
= DUG.
===
Ross
2011-08-29 02:08:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.
===
= DUG.
===
There are other options. Just recently, I learned about a movie from
the early 40s about a couple of gangsters who go to germany and kill
Hitler. The "twist" if you can call it that is that is that Hitler had
employed numerous body doubles to trick assassins. So after the heroes
kill Hitler, the end of the movie has Hitler dead, but the public will
never know, because one of Hitler's body doubles just stepped up and
took his place.

I was brought to mind of that because that particular one is relevant
to this plot, but you can similarly imagine other forms of "Yes, they
really changed history, but some contrived situation will keep anyone
from ever knowing." The Big Finish audio 'The Kingmaker' pulls this:
(rot 13 for spoiler) Gvzr-geniryyvat Funxrfcrner vf zvfgnxra sbe
Evpuneq VVV naq qvrf ng Obfjbegu Svryq, fb gur Qbpgbe gnxrf gur erny
Evpuneq sbejneq va gvzr, tvirf uvz n Funxrfcrner unvephg naq yrnirf
uvz va Fgengsbeq jvgu fbzr cynl bhgyvarf.
Jerry Brown
2011-08-29 10:17:23 UTC
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.
This was the exact plot I was expecting on Saturday.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Duggy
2011-08-29 11:03:17 UTC
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On Aug 29, 8:17 pm, Jerry Brown
Post by Jerry Brown
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.
This was the exact plot I was expecting on Saturday.
Especially when the "former companions" rumour started. Scene of
Martha being chased by Nazis, etc...

===
= DUG.
===
The Doctor
2011-08-29 14:05:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jerry Brown
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.
This was the exact plot I was expecting on Saturday.
Twists and surprises made it fun for me.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
The Doctor
2011-08-29 13:56:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Ubiquitous
I would expect any show with this premise to be lame because, we;;, we
know they'll fail. That's what I hate about stories about changing
historical events; they're doomed to fail.
The other option is they succeed and the alternative is worse and they
have to change things back.
Esp when 1938 < 1945 . Still avoiding WWII could be interesting.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
IT is done! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/about
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