Discussion:
Doctor Who A Christmas Carol with some Spoilers
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The Doctor
2010-12-27 04:11:35 UTC
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9/10 !!


One imperfection!


Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!


The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.


He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.


I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.

And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)

What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.

Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?

Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.


Well casted!!

Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.

Anyone has a link for outside UK?
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Ken from Chicago
2010-12-27 11:05:55 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
Maybe it's being American but I wanted to see more of that wicked cool ship
with color-coordinated crew.
Post by The Doctor
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
When in doubt, google it, please (lest I be accused of being rude, again):



-- Ken from Chicago

P.S. "Stetsons are cool."--Matt Smith, 'The Doctor', DOCTOR WHO.
The Doctor
2010-12-27 14:06:23 UTC
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Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
Maybe it's being American but I wanted to see more of that wicked cool ship
with color-coordinated crew.
Post by The Doctor
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
http://youtu.be/qpe1Ywz8azM
Thanks.


By the way http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1672218/

Now rates this 9/10 .
Post by Ken from Chicago
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Stetsons are cool."--Matt Smith, 'The Doctor', DOCTOR WHO.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
ravenlynne
2010-12-27 14:16:08 UTC
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Post by Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Stetsons are cool."--Matt Smith, 'The Doctor', DOCTOR WHO.
"It's a fez I wear a fez now fezzes are cool." -Matt Smith 'the
doctor', Doctor Who.
--
Happy Holidays!!!
The Doctor
2010-12-27 15:03:03 UTC
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Post by ravenlynne
Post by Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Stetsons are cool."--Matt Smith, 'The Doctor', DOCTOR WHO.
"It's a fez I wear a fez now fezzes are cool." -Matt Smith 'the
doctor', Doctor Who.
--
Happy Holidays!!!
And then there is MArilyn!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Pete B
2010-12-27 23:34:44 UTC
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Post by ravenlynne
Post by Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Stetsons are cool."--Matt Smith, 'The Doctor', DOCTOR WHO.
"It's a fez I wear a fez now fezzes are cool." -Matt Smith 'the
doctor', Doctor Who.
I thought that was Leo Laporte?
GK
2010-12-27 13:52:37 UTC
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Yes! I was thinking the same... Old & young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact & no
problem... come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
arrrrrrgh
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
--
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
The Doctor
2010-12-27 14:06:55 UTC
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Post by GK
Yes! I was thinking the same... Old & young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact & no
problem... come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
arrrrrrgh
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
--
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Mate, you got it!!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
The Face of Po
2010-12-27 14:57:54 UTC
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Post by GK
Yes! I was thinking the same... Old & young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact & no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy. (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
Post by GK
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.

The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius. I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.) And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.

That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
--
Happiness will prevail
The Doctor
2010-12-27 15:03:55 UTC
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Post by The Face of Po
Post by GK
Yes! I was thinking the same... Old & young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact & no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy. (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
Post by GK
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.
The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius. I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.) And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.
That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
--
Happiness will prevail
I thought I saw old Sardick hug young Sardick.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Ross
2010-12-27 16:58:48 UTC
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On Dec 27, 9:57 am, The Face of Po
Yes!  I was thinking the same...  Old & young, don't touch each other...  we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect..  don't touch..  then
arrrrgh...  the two versions of the same person came into contact & no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy.  (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.
The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius.  I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.)  And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.
If we want to get nitpicky, the very previous story had the Doctor
demonstrate it (without using the name) when the Doctor touches two
sonic screwdrivers together to shoot off sparks.

Also, there's *lots* of time travel stories with the same rule. Silver
age DC universe. Shadows of Destiny, Stargate, just to name a few.
It's also mentioned but does not happen in Back to the Future and Star
Trek
That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
Yep. And, in fact, *this episode does*. About two minutes later when
the Doctor realizes that he's changed Sardick so much that he's no
longer the same person. (Though it might have been a hair cleaner to
have the Doctor toss off a line in the middle about having temporally
discharged the boy or something. Also, I'd have liked a flashback
after Sardick failed to operate the controls showing his father
berating him for being soft and refusing to program his brainwaves
into the device)
Arthur Lipscomb
2010-12-27 19:28:58 UTC
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On Dec 27, 9:57 am, The Face of Po
Post by The Face of Po
Yes! I was thinking the same... Old& young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact& no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy. (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.
The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius. I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.) And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.
If we want to get nitpicky, the very previous story had the Doctor
demonstrate it (without using the name) when the Doctor touches two
sonic screwdrivers together to shoot off sparks.
Also, there's *lots* of time travel stories with the same rule. Silver
age DC universe. Shadows of Destiny, Stargate, just to name a few.
It's also mentioned but does not happen in Back to the Future and Star
Trek
Post by The Face of Po
That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
Yep. And, in fact, *this episode does*. About two minutes later when
the Doctor realizes that he's changed Sardick so much that he's no
longer the same person. (Though it might have been a hair cleaner to
have the Doctor toss off a line in the middle about having temporally
discharged the boy or something. Also, I'd have liked a flashback
after Sardick failed to operate the controls showing his father
berating him for being soft and refusing to program his brainwaves
into the device)
If Sardick changed, then so should have *everything* else. The machine
should have changed too. If his father didn't program it to work for
him then what was the point of a machine that no one could use? At some
point in the intervening decades Sardick would have ensured he could use
the machine.
Ross
2010-12-27 19:38:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Dec 27, 9:57 am, The Face of Po
Yes!  I was thinking the same...  Old&  young, don't touch each other...  we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect..  don't touch..  then
arrrrgh...  the two versions of the same person came into contact&  no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy.  (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.
The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius.  I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.)  And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.
If we want to get nitpicky, the very previous story had the Doctor
demonstrate it (without using the name) when the Doctor touches two
sonic screwdrivers together to shoot off sparks.
Also, there's *lots* of time travel stories with the same rule. Silver
age DC universe. Shadows of Destiny, Stargate, just to name a few.
It's also mentioned but does not happen in Back to the Future and Star
Trek
That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
Yep. And, in fact, *this episode does*. About two minutes later when
the Doctor realizes that he's changed Sardick so much that he's no
longer the same person. (Though it might have been a hair cleaner to
have the Doctor toss off a line in the middle about having temporally
discharged the boy or something. Also, I'd have liked a flashback
after Sardick failed to operate the controls showing his father
berating him for being soft and refusing to program his brainwaves
into the device)
If Sardick changed, then so should have *everything* else.  The machine
should have changed too.  If his father didn't program it to work for
him then what was the point of a machine that no one could use?  At some
point in the intervening decades Sardick would have ensured he could use
the machine.
Well, except that the entire rest of the episode shows this is not
truel; in the Doctor Who universe, history has inertia. Sardick
remembers *that his past has been changed*. In the new history, the
device is left on automatic; Sardick *can't* divert from the course
his father laid out.
Reader in Invisible Writings
2010-12-27 21:41:44 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ross
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
On Dec 27, 9:57 am, The Face of Po
Post by The Face of Po
Yes! I was thinking the same... Old& young, don't touch each other... we
all know about the blinovitch limitation effect.. don't touch.. then
arrrrgh... the two versions of the same person came into contact& no
problem...
But he didn't hit the boy. (Though I admit, I wasn't looking closely
enough to check that they never made physical contact at all).
come on, every Dr Who fan knows about the blinovitch limitation
effect - surely it is one of those things you don't just ignore...
Of course, it doesn't count if you've regenerated between the two times.
The Blinovitch limitation effect was one of those things created for a
plot point for a single story, whether or not it contradicted previous
episodes, and future episode writers don't feel bound by it either.
(See also: HADS, temporal grace, those faces in Brain of Morbius. I'm
still pissed off about the Doctor's age, though.) And given that the
only other time-travel continuity with a similar rule is Timecop, it's
probably best forgotten.
If we want to get nitpicky, the very previous story had the Doctor
demonstrate it (without using the name) when the Doctor touches two
sonic screwdrivers together to shoot off sparks.
Also, there's *lots* of time travel stories with the same rule. Silver
age DC universe. Shadows of Destiny, Stargate, just to name a few.
It's also mentioned but does not happen in Back to the Future and Star
Trek
Post by The Face of Po
That said, possible way-outs for the retconners are: the body had
completely renewed itself over the intervening decades (the Brigadier
was only five years apart); or whatever change prevented the isomorphic
controls from working at the end also kept the BLE at bay.
Yep. And, in fact, *this episode does*. About two minutes later when
the Doctor realizes that he's changed Sardick so much that he's no
longer the same person. (Though it might have been a hair cleaner to
have the Doctor toss off a line in the middle about having temporally
discharged the boy or something. Also, I'd have liked a flashback
after Sardick failed to operate the controls showing his father
berating him for being soft and refusing to program his brainwaves
into the device)
If Sardick changed, then so should have *everything* else. The machine
should have changed too. If his father didn't program it to work for
him then what was the point of a machine that no one could use? At some
point in the intervening decades Sardick would have ensured he could use
the machine.
Well, except that the entire rest of the episode shows this is not
truel; in the Doctor Who universe, history has inertia. Sardick
remembers *that his past has been changed*. In the new history, the
device is left on automatic; Sardick *can't* divert from the course
his father laid out.
I'll buy the inertia idea and probably an hour or so after Sardick will
be able to use the machine as its history gets updated to match the present.

The theme of the story is that you could re-write the past but Sardick
said you could not re-write people. (Ironically the opposite is true in
our reality). The Doctor showed that you could re-write people, well
Sardick anyway.
--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
Arthur Lipscomb
2010-12-27 15:50:34 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
That was the best part of the episode.
Post by The Doctor
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
I totally forgot about that it's not like they've referenced it again).
Probably because it was my favorite part of the episode. I thought it
was a great twist on the showing your future, that I didn't see coming.

Darn, now my brain has gone into nitpick mode. So if future Sarkis was
remembering what past Sarkis remembered as it happened, how could he be
surprised his past self was there watching events? He should have been
aware of it long before he turned and saw his younger self.
Post by The Doctor
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
Ered China Luin
2010-12-27 16:30:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Darn, now my brain has gone into nitpick mode. So if future Sarkis was
remembering what past Sarkis remembered as it happened, how could he be
surprised his past self was there watching events? He should have been
aware of it long before he turned and saw his younger self.
Future Sarkis only rememberred as the Doctor created the memories, and the
Doctor's timeline was linked to Future Sarkis's timeline due to the Blinovitch
Plot Effect.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. And ŒAll is vane¹ the cock replied.
The Doctor
2010-12-28 00:15:44 UTC
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Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Great start and yeah a bit of a Star Trek holiday ship rip off I must
admit!!
The Doctor first begs for the lives of those on board and gets the boot.
He then here a Christmas Carol and decides to play Dickens.
I do not fault Moffatt for the interference in Time Travel.
That actually enhnces to the art.
And this is fun ( Anyone for a Doctor Who and MArilyn Monroe meetup?)
What I did not like was the young Sarkis meeting the old Sarkis.
That was the best part of the episode.
Post by The Doctor
Anyone recall Maydryn Undead and what one brigadier did to another?
I totally forgot about that it's not like they've referenced it again).
Probably because it was my favorite part of the episode. I thought it
was a great twist on the showing your future, that I didn't see coming.
Darn, now my brain has gone into nitpick mode. So if future Sarkis was
remembering what past Sarkis remembered as it happened, how could he be
surprised his past self was there watching events? He should have been
aware of it long before he turned and saw his younger self.
Post by The Doctor
Also, political power and influence, Moffatt weaves these themes well.
Well casted!!
Unfortunatley I did not catch glimpse of the new coming season.
Anyone has a link for outside UK?
REcall the 6 year difference in the Birgadier.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Padmar Mushkin
2010-12-27 16:16:52 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Dammit. Space put it in a marathon of DW which I assumed were all
repeats as marathons ALWAYS ARE! I hope I can get On Demand...
The Doctor
2010-12-28 00:16:14 UTC
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Post by Padmar Mushkin
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Dammit. Space put it in a marathon of DW which I assumed were all
repeats as marathons ALWAYS ARE! I hope I can get On Demand...
I was aired Boxing Day and 27 DEc.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Pete B
2010-12-27 23:34:03 UTC
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In article <if93ln$3jl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca>, ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
says...
Post by The Doctor
9/10 !!
One imperfection!
Yeah the story.
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