Discussion:
S08E12 Death in Heaven
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Agamemnon
2014-11-08 22:22:16 UTC
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Permalink
New title sequence... Don't you think it looks tired?

The Cybermen become Ironmen, the Master does a Mary Poppins and the Doctor
turns into James Bond.

As usual the story got totally over inflated, with the cemeteries on the
entire planet being taken over by Cybermen, (what about the crematoriums?)
and everyone not knowing what Cybermen are despite the fact that last time
the entire planet was taken over by them (and the Daleks too) they appeared
on everyone's doorstep.

So Danny proved himself to be a complete idiot like almost everyone here was
saying after all. Given the chance to come back from the dead he chose to
give it instead to some boy he didn't even know who he killed by accident
and who could have gone on to become a terrorist himself. What a complete
moron. Didn't he care anything about Clara? What about all the other people
he killed deliberately who were just doing their job, don't they have
families and loved ones as well?

I kept thinking that Clara would tell him that she was pregnant but she said
nothing. Could that have brought him back? Is this the last we'll see of
both of them now? Who will replace Clara and why did the Doctor lie about
Gallifrey? To get rid of her?

Don't think the Master's dead. The disintegration beam he/she/it/they used
on his/her/its/their own victims was orange whereas there was no beam that
came from the device when the Doctor used it and the Master disintegrated
into a shower of blue particles instead. Emergency teleport?

Don't think bringing the Brigadier back as a Cyberman was done in good
taste, but at least Moffat didn't turn back time again. I wonder how many of
his own deceased relatives he imagines as Cybermen as well? It would have
been better if the Doctor had gone after Kate Stewart and used his cape to
fly with while in the air and bring about a soft landing.

Seemed the whole thing was originally written for Matt Smith again. Will we
get stuff written specifically for Capaldi next year?

Liked the mention that when the Master was PM he wasn't the worst the
country has had recently. Obviously a reference to Margaret Thatcher which I
predicted in one of my replies concerning last week's episode.

As for the Christmas special... Moffat's take on Alien and The Thing from
Another World (which was already done in The Seeds of Doom by Phillip
Hinchcliffe) it seems.

10/10
Rob
2014-11-08 22:29:43 UTC
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Permalink
On 08/11/14 22:22, Agamemnon wrote:

> Don't think the Master's dead. The disintegration beam he/she/it/they used
> on his/her/its/their own victims was orange whereas there was no beam that
> came from the device when the Doctor used it and the Master disintegrated
> into a shower of blue particles instead. Emergency teleport?

I thought The Brigadier had shot Missy. That is certainly what it looked
like.

Anyway, (s)he'll be back...

> 10/10

Again?

--
Rob
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational
in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary
to prove it at all." - Avon, Blake's 7
Andrew M
2014-11-08 23:40:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:

> New title sequence... Don't you think it looks tired?

No

>
> The Cybermen become Ironmen, the Master does a Mary Poppins and the
> Doctor turns into James Bond.
>
> As usual the story got totally over inflated, with the cemeteries on
> the entire planet being taken over by Cybermen, (what about the
> crematoriums?)

There are no physical remains with cremation. That's why Missy put it
about that the dead feel the pain of cremation. Didn't you work that
out?

> and everyone not knowing what Cybermen are despite the fact that last
> time the entire planet was taken over by them (and the Daleks too) they
> appeared on everyone's doorstep.
>
> So Danny proved himself to be a complete idiot like almost everyone
> here was saying after all. Given the chance to come back from the dead
> he chose to give it instead to some boy he didn't even know

You mean, apart from the fact that he shot him?

> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> terrorist himself.

Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
whiff of racism I detect.

> What a complete moron. Didn't he care anything about Clara? What about
> all the other people he killed deliberately who were just doing their
> job, don't they have families and loved ones as well?

Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
The boy he killed did not.

>
> I kept thinking that Clara would tell him that she was pregnant but she
> said nothing. Could that have brought him back? Is this the last we'll
> see of both of them now? Who will replace Clara and why did the Doctor
> lie about Gallifrey? To get rid of her?

I thought that was utterly clear. He believed Danny had returned and
wanted Clara to assume that he, The Doctor, would be fine without her.

>
> Don't think the Master's dead. The disintegration beam he/she/it/they
> used on his/her/its/their own victims was orange whereas there was no
> beam that came from the device when the Doctor used it and the Master
> disintegrated into a shower of blue particles instead. Emergency
> teleport?

I thought it was the Lethbridge-Stewart cyberman that killed her.
Certainly the beam came from his direction.

>
> Don't think bringing the Brigadier back as a Cyberman was done in good
> taste, but at least Moffat didn't turn back time again. I wonder how
> many of his own deceased relatives he imagines as Cybermen as well? It
> would have been better if the Doctor had gone after Kate Stewart and
> used his cape to fly with while in the air and bring about a soft
> landing.

He has a cape? I thought the Brigadier/Cyberman was great.

>
> Seemed the whole thing was originally written for Matt Smith again.
> Will we get stuff written specifically for Capaldi next year?
>
> Liked the mention that when the Master was PM he wasn't the worst the
> country has had recently. Obviously a reference to Margaret Thatcher
> which I predicted in one of my replies concerning last week's episode.
>
> As for the Christmas special... Moffat's take on Alien and The Thing
> from Another World (which was already done in The Seeds of Doom by
> Phillip Hinchcliffe) it seems.
>
> 10/10
The Doctor
2014-11-09 00:09:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>,
Andrew M <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>
>> New title sequence... Don't you think it looks tired?
>
>No
>
>>
>> The Cybermen become Ironmen, the Master does a Mary Poppins and the
>> Doctor turns into James Bond.
>>
>> As usual the story got totally over inflated, with the cemeteries on
>> the entire planet being taken over by Cybermen, (what about the
>> crematoriums?)
>
>There are no physical remains with cremation. That's why Missy put it
>about that the dead feel the pain of cremation. Didn't you work that
>out?
>
>> and everyone not knowing what Cybermen are despite the fact that last
>> time the entire planet was taken over by them (and the Daleks too) they
>> appeared on everyone's doorstep.
>>
>> So Danny proved himself to be a complete idiot like almost everyone
>> here was saying after all. Given the chance to come back from the dead
>> he chose to give it instead to some boy he didn't even know
>
>You mean, apart from the fact that he shot him?
>
>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> terrorist himself.
>
>Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>whiff of racism I detect.
>
>> What a complete moron. Didn't he care anything about Clara? What about
>> all the other people he killed deliberately who were just doing their
>> job, don't they have families and loved ones as well?
>
>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
>the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
>point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
>The boy he killed did not.
>
>>
>> I kept thinking that Clara would tell him that she was pregnant but she
>> said nothing. Could that have brought him back? Is this the last we'll
>> see of both of them now? Who will replace Clara and why did the Doctor
>> lie about Gallifrey? To get rid of her?
>
>I thought that was utterly clear. He believed Danny had returned and
>wanted Clara to assume that he, The Doctor, would be fine without her.
>
>>
>> Don't think the Master's dead. The disintegration beam he/she/it/they
>> used on his/her/its/their own victims was orange whereas there was no
>> beam that came from the device when the Doctor used it and the Master
>> disintegrated into a shower of blue particles instead. Emergency
>> teleport?
>
>I thought it was the Lethbridge-Stewart cyberman that killed her.
>Certainly the beam came from his direction.
>
>>
>> Don't think bringing the Brigadier back as a Cyberman was done in good
>> taste, but at least Moffat didn't turn back time again. I wonder how
>> many of his own deceased relatives he imagines as Cybermen as well? It
>> would have been better if the Doctor had gone after Kate Stewart and
>> used his cape to fly with while in the air and bring about a soft
>> landing.
>
>He has a cape? I thought the Brigadier/Cyberman was great.
>
>>
>> Seemed the whole thing was originally written for Matt Smith again.
>> Will we get stuff written specifically for Capaldi next year?
>>
>> Liked the mention that when the Master was PM he wasn't the worst the
>> country has had recently. Obviously a reference to Margaret Thatcher
>> which I predicted in one of my replies concerning last week's episode.
>>
>> As for the Christmas special... Moffat's take on Alien and The Thing
>> from Another World (which was already done in The Seeds of Doom by
>> Phillip Hinchcliffe) it seems.
>>
>> 10/10
>
>

Looking forward to seeing Alastair back.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 00:31:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Andrew M" <***@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom...
> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>
>> New title sequence... Don't you think it looks tired?
>
> No
>
>>
>> The Cybermen become Ironmen, the Master does a Mary Poppins and the
>> Doctor turns into James Bond.
>>
>> As usual the story got totally over inflated, with the cemeteries on the
>> entire planet being taken over by Cybermen, (what about the
>> crematoriums?)
>
> There are no physical remains with cremation. That's why Missy put it
> about that the dead feel the pain of cremation. Didn't you work that out?

Really. What about the pain of embalming fluid?

Most of the bodies in the cemetery would have been so long in the ground
that they would have completely rotted away. If the Master could make
Cybermen out of compost then why not out of ash?

>
>> and everyone not knowing what Cybermen are despite the fact that last
>> time the entire planet was taken over by them (and the Daleks too) they
>> appeared on everyone's doorstep.
>>
>> So Danny proved himself to be a complete idiot like almost everyone here
>> was saying after all. Given the chance to come back from the dead he
>> chose to give it instead to some boy he didn't even know
>
> You mean, apart from the fact that he shot him?

He still didn't know the boy and nor did the viewer and they shouldn't be
expected to care one iota for him. He was nothing more than collateral
damage. What about all the other people he shot dead. Why doesn't he give
his life up for them?

>
>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> terrorist himself.
>
> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a whiff
> of racism I detect.

It's a whiff of realism. Even Moffat agrees with that view since he had both
the Master and the Doctor knocked out by a dart by UNIT for the same reason.
They didn't know if either would turn out to be friend or foe so they
couldn't take any chances.

>
>> What a complete moron. Didn't he care anything about Clara? What about
>> all the other people he killed deliberately who were just doing their
>> job, don't they have families and loved ones as well?
>
> Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was the
> choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the point. If
> they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice. The boy he
> killed did not.

The boy was collateral damage and his death was no different to the deaths
of the other people that Danny must have killed on the enemy side. Why
doesn't Danny have any remorse for them? He must have been told by his
superior offices to go into the villages and kill anything that moved
because it was full of terrorists and the aim was to rout them all out. If
the boy was there then it is the fault of the terrorist that he was killed
for using him as a human shield. Either that or he was there willingly and
sympathised with the terrorist. Obviously Moffat doesn't want to go into
that type of discussion so leaves the viewer no justified reason to support
Danny's decision despite Danny saving the whole of humanity, which should be
seen as an act of redemption and him allegedly being in love with Clara.
Clearly he didn't care all that much for her having decided to rob her of
being with him again.

>
>>
>> I kept thinking that Clara would tell him that she was pregnant but she
>> said nothing. Could that have brought him back? Is this the last we'll
>> see of both of them now? Who will replace Clara and why did the Doctor
>> lie about Gallifrey? To get rid of her?
>
> I thought that was utterly clear. He believed Danny had returned and
> wanted Clara to assume that he, The Doctor, would be fine without her.
>

Not convincing. He didn't care much for Danny being with Clara before so why
now and why doesn't he ask to see Danny to thank him for saving the earth?

>>
>> Don't think the Master's dead. The disintegration beam he/she/it/they
>> used on his/her/its/their own victims was orange whereas there was no
>> beam that came from the device when the Doctor used it and the Master
>> disintegrated into a shower of blue particles instead. Emergency
>> teleport?
>
> I thought it was the Lethbridge-Stewart cyberman that killed her.
> Certainly the beam came from his direction.

Didn't look like a beam projected from in front of the Master to me.

>
>>
>> Don't think bringing the Brigadier back as a Cyberman was done in good
>> taste, but at least Moffat didn't turn back time again. I wonder how many
>> of his own deceased relatives he imagines as Cybermen as well? It would
>> have been better if the Doctor had gone after Kate Stewart and used his
>> cape to fly with while in the air and bring about a soft landing.
>
> He has a cape? I thought the Brigadier/Cyberman was great.
>

I think it was bad taste. What's he going to do now as the last Cyberman?

>>
>> Seemed the whole thing was originally written for Matt Smith again. Will
>> we get stuff written specifically for Capaldi next year?
>>
>> Liked the mention that when the Master was PM he wasn't the worst the
>> country has had recently. Obviously a reference to Margaret Thatcher
>> which I predicted in one of my replies concerning last week's episode.
>>
>> As for the Christmas special... Moffat's take on Alien and The Thing from
>> Another World (which was already done in The Seeds of Doom by Phillip
>> Hinchcliffe) it seems.
>>
>> 10/10
>
>
solar penguin
2014-11-09 00:56:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:

> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>
>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> terrorist himself.
>
> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
> whiff of racism I detect.
>

That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
he's improved a lot!
Pudentame
2014-11-09 02:51:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
<***@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>
>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>
>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>>> terrorist himself.
>>
>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>> whiff of racism I detect.
>>
>
>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
>he's improved a lot!

More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 06:25:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>>
>>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>>>> terrorist himself.
>>>
>>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>>> whiff of racism I detect.
>>>
>>
>>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
>>he's improved a lot!
>
> More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.

From you and the solar idiot.

The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for the
girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story of
Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead either let
alone take Danny's place.
Pudentame
2014-11-09 19:14:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 06:25:35 -0000, "Agamemnon"
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>
>"Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>>>
>>>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>>>>> terrorist himself.
>>>>
>>>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>>>> whiff of racism I detect.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
>>>he's improved a lot!
>>
>> More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>
>From you and the solar idiot.
>
>The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for the
>girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story of
>Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead either let
>alone take Danny's place.
>

Have you never heard of survivor's guilt?
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 19:59:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
> Have you never heard of survivor's guilt?

That doesn't apply. Survivor's guilt is when someone/something else does the
killing and a survivor feels guilty when someone more worthy died.

This is plain old culpable guilt. Danny killed a civillian, and that time it
stuck in his craw. These things happen in real life. Since his conduct was
legal, it's not up to you or me to tell him what he should or shouldn't feel. He
chose to feel guilty; and he felt guilty enough to give up his life for another.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
Pudentame
2014-11-09 21:23:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:59:19 -0800, Siri Crews <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> Have you never heard of survivor's guilt?
>
>That doesn't apply. Survivor's guilt is when someone/something else does the
>killing and a survivor feels guilty when someone more worthy died.
>
>This is plain old culpable guilt. Danny killed a civillian, and that time it
>stuck in his craw. These things happen in real life. Since his conduct was
>legal, it's not up to you or me to tell him what he should or shouldn't feel. He
>chose to feel guilty; and he felt guilty enough to give up his life for another.

I disagree.

Under the circumstances of being a foot-soldier in an asymetric war,
particularly one where the other side's soldiers are not in uniform
and may include children among their combatants, Danny feels guilt for
the death of the child, but the culpability isn't his - unless you can
show that he violated his ROE.

Survivor's guilt includes bystander guilt, but among active combatants
it also includes guilt over the things done for survival even when
those were not culpable acts.
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 21:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>,
Pudentame <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:59:19 -0800, Siri Crews <***@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Have you never heard of survivor's guilt?
> >
> >That doesn't apply. Survivor's guilt is when someone/something else does the
> >killing and a survivor feels guilty when someone more worthy died.
> >
> >This is plain old culpable guilt. Danny killed a civillian, and that time it
> >stuck in his craw. These things happen in real life. Since his conduct was
> >legal, it's not up to you or me to tell him what he should or shouldn't
> >feel. He
> >chose to feel guilty; and he felt guilty enough to give up his life for
> >another.
>
> I disagree.

That's because you don't understand the definition.

> Under the circumstances of being a foot-soldier in an asymetric war,

Other soldiers who fought with him would've been killed. Danny could feel guilty
that he survived and they didn't. That would be a case of survivor's guilt that
does happen with soldiers and other survivors of violence.

> particularly one where the other side's soldiers are not in uniform
> and may include children among their combatants, Danny feels guilt for
> the death of the child, but the culpability isn't his - unless you can

He did not survive a violence directed out both of them. He was the violence
directed solely at the boy. He was not legally responsible for the boy's death,
otherwise he would have been convicted of murder, but he chose to hold himself
responsible. By definition that isn't survivor's guilt, nor is legal guilt, it's
just plain old guilt.

> Survivor's guilt includes bystander guilt, but among active combatants
> it also includes guilt over the things done for survival even when
> those were not culpable acts.

You've broadenned the term so far as to make it meaningless.


Survivor's guilt is distinguished because the guilty had no responsible for the
violence and who survived, but still takes responsibility for it. The treatment
is helping them realise they were not responsible. The treatment for plain old
guilt is to recognise your failure, try not to repeat it, and try to make amends.

Danny chose to be guilty and that's how he made amends.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
TB
2014-11-09 22:10:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Spoilers:

1
1
2
3
4
5
6
6
6
7
8
9
0
0
0
-
=

I nominate Danny Pink for the Purple Cross, for his heroic sacrifice to eliminate the Cyberman threat! To do so, he had to resist his own Cyber conditioning, and persaude other Cybermen to help him!
Your Name
2014-11-09 20:29:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <tP-dnW-9-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >>>
> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >>>
> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >>>
> >>
> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
> >>he's improved a lot!
> >
> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>
> From you and the solar idiot.
>
> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for the
> girl's sister to come back

As a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings for helping
communicate with the Doctor and save the planet.



> and there is no justification in the story of Death in Heaven for the boy
> Danny shot to come back from the dead either let alone take Danny's place.

Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
made.
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 20:57:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:101120140929104388%***@YourISP.com...
> In article <tP-dnW-9-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
> <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >>>
>> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
>> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >
>> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>>
>> From you and the solar idiot.
>>
>> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for
>> the
>> girl's sister to come back
>
> As a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings for helping
> communicate with the Doctor and save the planet.
>

Why? Where was that referenced in the dialogue? Why did the sister go
missing in the first place? What reason serving the plot and only the plot
justifies the sister's return? There isn't one, and why should she decide to
return at that exact point? This was nothing more than bad writing.

>
>
>> and there is no justification in the story of Death in Heaven for the boy
>> Danny shot to come back from the dead either let alone take Danny's
>> place.
>
> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
> made.

Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was entirely
innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him. What was
Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny has a future
as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time traveller from
Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it. Did he have some
sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car deliberately? Again this
was nothing more than bad writing.
Stephen Wilson
2014-11-09 22:37:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>
>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>> made.
>
> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him.
> What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny
> has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time
> traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it.
> Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car
> deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.

You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.
Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who was
talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
accepting that God could ever forgive him.

The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over your
head...
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 23:13:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Stephen Wilson" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:k0S7w.785686$***@fx27.am4...
>
> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
> news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>
>>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>> made.
>>
>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him.
>> What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny
>> has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time
>> traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it.
>> Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car
>> deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.
>
> You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
> another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.

We are not talking about Danny running a little boy over in the street.
Danny was a professional soldier and what are soldiers trained to do? Kill
people. Why doesn't he have any guilt for all the other people, some of them
were probably other kids, that he killed?

> Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who was
> talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
> accepting that God could ever forgive him.

God? This god you are talking about ordered the mass genocide of every
living creature, man, woman, child and even animal in Jericho.

>
> The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
> reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
> anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over
> your head...

He wasn't Danny's son, brother, cousin, nephew or anything else and even if
he meant something to Danny he meant nothing to the viewer.

Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the one
to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire episode
devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny should have
lived.
Pudentame
2014-11-10 01:32:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:13:34 -0000, "Agamemnon"
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Wilson" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:k0S7w.785686$***@fx27.am4...
>>
>> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
>> news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>>
>>>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>>> made.
>>>
>>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
>>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>>> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him.
>>> What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny
>>> has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time
>>> traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it.
>>> Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car
>>> deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.
>>
>> You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
>> another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.
>
>We are not talking about Danny running a little boy over in the street.
>Danny was a professional soldier and what are soldiers trained to do? Kill
>people. Why doesn't he have any guilt for all the other people, some of them
>were probably other kids, that he killed?
>

I don't think you've ever been a soldier or you wouldn't have such a
fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trained to do, what they
really do & and what it does to them.

>> Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who was
>> talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
>> accepting that God could ever forgive him.
>
>God? This god you are talking about ordered the mass genocide of every
>living creature, man, woman, child and even animal in Jericho.
>
>>
>> The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
>> reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
>> anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over
>> your head...
>
>He wasn't Danny's son, brother, cousin, nephew or anything else and even if
>he meant something to Danny he meant nothing to the viewer.
>
>Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the one
>to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire episode
>devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny should have
>lived.
>

Orson is more closely related to red herrings in Schrödinger's catfood
than he is to Danny.

I went back and watched "Listen" again. While the man is named Orson
Pink and he has Danny's toy soldier as a family heirloom, he's
supposed to be somewhere in Clara's timeline.

It doesn't even say that Clara is his great-grandmother, only that his
great-grandmother was supposedly a time traveler.

Plus, from Clara's point of view Orson is a possibility, not a fixed
point. Orson being a descendent of Danny's & Clara's is an assumption
made by the viewer, but it's never actually stated explicitly.
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 02:37:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:13:34 -0000, "Agamemnon"
> <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Stephen Wilson" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:k0S7w.785686$***@fx27.am4...
>>>
>>> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
>>> news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>>>
>>>>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>>>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer.
>>>> We
>>>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>>>> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with
>>>> him.
>>>> What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny
>>>> has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first
>>>> time
>>>> traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it.
>>>> Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car
>>>> deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.
>>>
>>> You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
>>> another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.
>>
>>We are not talking about Danny running a little boy over in the street.
>>Danny was a professional soldier and what are soldiers trained to do? Kill
>>people. Why doesn't he have any guilt for all the other people, some of
>>them
>>were probably other kids, that he killed?
>>
>
> I don't think you've ever been a soldier or you wouldn't have such a
> fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trained to do, what they
> really do & and what it does to them.

Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy and
anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following orders. If
there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't care about
collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the enemy pose a
threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your comrades lives come
above everything and you don't care what you do to protect them.

>
>>> Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who
>>> was
>>> talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
>>> accepting that God could ever forgive him.
>>
>>God? This god you are talking about ordered the mass genocide of every
>>living creature, man, woman, child and even animal in Jericho.
>>
>>>
>>> The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
>>> reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
>>> anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over
>>> your head...
>>
>>He wasn't Danny's son, brother, cousin, nephew or anything else and even
>>if
>>he meant something to Danny he meant nothing to the viewer.
>>
>>Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the
>>one
>>to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire episode
>>devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny should have
>>lived.
>>
>
> Orson is more closely related to red herrings in Schrödinger's catfood
> than he is to Danny.
>
> I went back and watched "Listen" again. While the man is named Orson
> Pink and he has Danny's toy soldier as a family heirloom, he's
> supposed to be somewhere in Clara's timeline.
>
> It doesn't even say that Clara is his great-grandmother, only that his
> great-grandmother was supposedly a time traveler.

He looks like Danny and has Danny's toy soldier and that toy soldier is
connected to the Doctor's timeline. It was the Doctor's timeline they we're
following and therefore you would expect all events connected with it to be
immutable.

>
> Plus, from Clara's point of view Orson is a possibility, not a fixed
> point. Orson being a descendent of Danny's & Clara's is an assumption
> made by the viewer, but it's never actually stated explicitly.
>

Then how does the young Doctor get in possession of the toy soldier?

Clara is either pregnant with Danny's child and if so why doesn't she use
her maiden name, since they're not married or Danny has to come back.
Your Name
2014-11-10 03:14:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> >
> > I don't think you've ever been a soldier or you wouldn't have such a
> > fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trained to do, what they
> > really do & and what it does to them.
>
> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy and
> anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following orders. If
> there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't care about
> collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the enemy pose a
> threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your comrades lives come
> above everything and you don't care what you do to protect them.

And another dumbass troll meets the killfile. :-\
The Doctor
2014-11-10 15:21:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <101120141614251110%***@YourISP.com>,
Your Name <***@YourISP.com> wrote:
>In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
><***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > I don't think you've ever been a soldier or you wouldn't have such a
>> > fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trained to do, what they
>> > really do & and what it does to them.
>>
>> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy and
>> anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following orders. If
>> there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't care about
>> collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the enemy pose a
>> threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your comrades lives come
>> above everything and you don't care what you do to protect them.
>
>And another dumbass troll meets the killfile. :-\

YN is an idiot!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
The Doctor
2014-11-10 15:17:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:13:34 -0000, "Agamemnon"
>> <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Stephen Wilson" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>news:k0S7w.785686$***@fx27.am4...
>>>>
>>>> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
>>>> news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>>>>> made.
>>>>>
>>>>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>>>>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer.
>>>>> We
>>>>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>>>>> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with
>>>>> him.
>>>>> What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny
>>>>> has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first
>>>>> time
>>>>> traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it.
>>>>> Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car
>>>>> deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.
>>>>
>>>> You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
>>>> another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.
>>>
>>>We are not talking about Danny running a little boy over in the street.
>>>Danny was a professional soldier and what are soldiers trained to do? Kill
>>>people. Why doesn't he have any guilt for all the other people, some of
>>>them
>>>were probably other kids, that he killed?
>>>
>>
>> I don't think you've ever been a soldier or you wouldn't have such a
>> fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trained to do, what they
>> really do & and what it does to them.
>
>Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy and
>anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following orders. If
>there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't care about
>collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the enemy pose a
>threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your comrades lives come
>above everything and you don't care what you do to protect them.
>
>>
>>>> Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who
>>>> was
>>>> talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
>>>> accepting that God could ever forgive him.
>>>
>>>God? This god you are talking about ordered the mass genocide of every
>>>living creature, man, woman, child and even animal in Jericho.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
>>>> reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
>>>> anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over
>>>> your head...
>>>
>>>He wasn't Danny's son, brother, cousin, nephew or anything else and even
>>>if
>>>he meant something to Danny he meant nothing to the viewer.
>>>
>>>Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the
>>>one
>>>to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire episode
>>>devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny should have
>>>lived.
>>>
>>
>> Orson is more closely related to red herrings in Schrödinger's catfood
>> than he is to Danny.
>>
>> I went back and watched "Listen" again. While the man is named Orson
>> Pink and he has Danny's toy soldier as a family heirloom, he's
>> supposed to be somewhere in Clara's timeline.
>>
>> It doesn't even say that Clara is his great-grandmother, only that his
>> great-grandmother was supposedly a time traveler.
>
>He looks like Danny and has Danny's toy soldier and that toy soldier is
>connected to the Doctor's timeline. It was the Doctor's timeline they we're
>following and therefore you would expect all events connected with it to be
>immutable.
>
>>
>> Plus, from Clara's point of view Orson is a possibility, not a fixed
>> point. Orson being a descendent of Danny's & Clara's is an assumption
>> made by the viewer, but it's never actually stated explicitly.
>>
>
>Then how does the young Doctor get in possession of the toy soldier?
>
>Clara is either pregnant with Danny's child and if so why doesn't she use
>her maiden name, since they're not married or Danny has to come back.
>
>
>

Logical.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
solar penguin
2014-11-11 11:59:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:37:42 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:

>
> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy
> and anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following
> orders. If there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't
> care about collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the
> enemy pose a threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your
> comrades lives come above everything and you don't care what you do to
> protect them.
>

Your relatives are clearly as sensitive as you are. It's probably
genetic.

More importantly, I bet none of them were overly caring, tender young
children who were accidentally hypnotised into wanting more than anything
to become a soldier, even though psychologically they were totally
unsuited for it. Because, remember, that's what happened to Rupert/Danny.
Agamemnon
2014-11-11 12:41:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:m3stnf$7qi$***@dont-email.me...
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:37:42 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:
>
>>
>> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the enemy
>> and anyone or anything connected with them comes next to following
>> orders. If there's someone on the other side ready to kill you you don't
>> care about collateral damage unless it's one of your comrades and if the
>> enemy pose a threat to or have hurt any of your comrades then your
>> comrades lives come above everything and you don't care what you do to
>> protect them.
>>
>
> Your relatives are clearly as sensitive as you are. It's probably
> genetic.
>
> More importantly, I bet none of them were overly caring, tender young
> children who were accidentally hypnotised into wanting more than anything
> to become a soldier, even though psychologically they were totally
> unsuited for it. Because, remember, that's what happened to Rupert/Danny.

So basically you think being a soldier is like playing video games and when
it's all over you can get up and play again completely healed as if nothing
bad had ever happened.

Well it's not.

One of the first things you are taught as a soldier is to stick a bayonet
into an enemy's stomach and twist and pull out ripping out their intestines.
Overly caring and tender it is not. It's called war and a soldier is a
trained killer no different to a wild animal.

If Danny wanted to be a soldier then that is the first thing he would have
been told.
solar penguin
2014-11-11 13:35:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:41:19 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:

> "solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:m3stnf$7qi$***@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:37:42 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the
>>> enemy and anyone or anything connected with them comes next to
>>> following orders. If there's someone on the other side ready to kill
>>> you you don't care about collateral damage unless it's one of your
>>> comrades and if the enemy pose a threat to or have hurt any of your
>>> comrades then your comrades lives come above everything and you don't
>>> care what you do to protect them.
>>>
>>>
>> Your relatives are clearly as sensitive as you are. It's probably
>> genetic.
>>
>> More importantly, I bet none of them were overly caring, tender young
>> children who were accidentally hypnotised into wanting more than
>> anything to become a soldier, even though psychologically they were
>> totally unsuited for it. Because, remember, that's what happened to
>> Rupert/Danny.
>
> So basically you think being a soldier is like playing video games and
> when it's all over you can get up and play again completely healed as if
> nothing bad had ever happened.
>

No. What gave you that idea.


> Well it's not.
>
> One of the first things you are taught as a soldier is to stick a
> bayonet into an enemy's stomach and twist and pull out ripping out their
> intestines. Overly caring and tender it is not.

That's right. It is not overly caring and tender. Danny is. That's what
made him unsuited to being a soldier.

> It's called war and a
> soldier is a trained killer no different to a wild animal.
>
> If Danny wanted to be a soldier then that is the first thing he would
> have been told.

Let's assume that's right.

And at that point, _if_ he'd been sensible, he would've realised right
away that he just wasn't suited to being a soldier. He was just too
caring and sensitive for it.

But he _wasn't_ acting sensibly. The hypnotic brainwashing that young
Rupert accidentally received was still strong enough to make him want to
go through with it anyway. He still had this idealised, romanticised
image of the "soldier without a gun" that had been implanted in Rupert's
head by the Doctor and Clara, and that's what was still driving him, even
though it didn't correspond to reality.
Agamemnon
2014-11-11 20:07:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:m3t3bk$noi$***@dont-email.me...
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:41:19 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:
>
>> "solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:m3stnf$7qi$***@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:37:42 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Got relatives who were, know others who are or were. Hatred of the
>>>> enemy and anyone or anything connected with them comes next to
>>>> following orders. If there's someone on the other side ready to kill
>>>> you you don't care about collateral damage unless it's one of your
>>>> comrades and if the enemy pose a threat to or have hurt any of your
>>>> comrades then your comrades lives come above everything and you don't
>>>> care what you do to protect them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Your relatives are clearly as sensitive as you are. It's probably
>>> genetic.
>>>
>>> More importantly, I bet none of them were overly caring, tender young
>>> children who were accidentally hypnotised into wanting more than
>>> anything to become a soldier, even though psychologically they were
>>> totally unsuited for it. Because, remember, that's what happened to
>>> Rupert/Danny.
>>
>> So basically you think being a soldier is like playing video games and
>> when it's all over you can get up and play again completely healed as if
>> nothing bad had ever happened.
>>
>
> No. What gave you that idea.
>
>
>> Well it's not.
>>
>> One of the first things you are taught as a soldier is to stick a
>> bayonet into an enemy's stomach and twist and pull out ripping out their
>> intestines. Overly caring and tender it is not.
>
> That's right. It is not overly caring and tender. Danny is. That's what
> made him unsuited to being a soldier.

Which is all a load of twaddle. There's no reason why you can't be both.

>
>> It's called war and a
>> soldier is a trained killer no different to a wild animal.
>>
>> If Danny wanted to be a soldier then that is the first thing he would
>> have been told.
>
> Let's assume that's right.
>
> And at that point, _if_ he'd been sensible, he would've realised right
> away that he just wasn't suited to being a soldier. He was just too
> caring and sensitive for it.

Caring and sensitive doesn't preclude you from being a soldier.

>
> But he _wasn't_ acting sensibly. The hypnotic brainwashing that young
> Rupert accidentally received was still strong enough to make him want to
> go through with it anyway. He still had this idealised, romanticised
> image of the "soldier without a gun" that had been implanted in Rupert's
> head by the Doctor and Clara, and that's what was still driving him, even
> though it didn't correspond to reality.

He was the one who chose to play toy soldiers and reject the one without a
gun, and why was that? He knew what soldiers do is kill or be killed. The
Doctor showed him that the one without the gun was the one in command
because the other soldiers were nothing more than his weapons. So Danny
should have known that it wasn't him that killed the boy but the person who
gave him his orders or the terrorists he was routing their orders.
Stephen Wilson
2014-11-10 17:19:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:HL6dnQ3OR5-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Stephen Wilson" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:k0S7w.785686$***@fx27.am4...
>>
>> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
>> news:P-***@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>>
>>>> Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>>> made.
>>>
>>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer.
>>> We don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>>> entirely innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with
>>> him. What was Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on?
>>> Danny has a future as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the
>>> first time traveller from Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny
>>> saved it. Did he have some sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of
>>> the car deliberately? Again this was nothing more than bad writing.
>>
>> You're the idiot, Aggy. Most people who are responsible for the death of
>> another person carry that guilt with them for the rest of their lives.
>
> We are not talking about Danny running a little boy over in the street.
> Danny was a professional soldier and what are soldiers trained to do? Kill
> people. Why doesn't he have any guilt for all the other people, some of
> them were probably other kids, that he killed?
>
>> Anyone who is not a psychopath at least. I met a vicar just today who was
>> talking about a man who had killed during a war and could find no way of
>> accepting that God could ever forgive him.
>
> God? This god you are talking about ordered the mass genocide of every
> living creature, man, woman, child and even animal in Jericho.
>
>>
>> The boy meant nothing to Danny or the viewer? Why do you think Danny was
>> reduced to tears in the classroom when he was asked if he'd ever killed
>> anyone? That boy was the reason he was in tears. But whoosh right over
>> your head...
>
> He wasn't Danny's son, brother, cousin, nephew or anything else and even
> if he meant something to Danny he meant nothing to the viewer.
>
> Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the
> one to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire
> episode devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny
> should have lived.

He's not convinced me either. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he's
back in the Christmas special...
Ryan P.
2014-11-10 20:01:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 11/10/2014 11:19 AM, Stephen Wilson wrote:
> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message

>> Moffat didn't do enough to convince me that the boy should have been the
>> one to have come back. Most of the foreshadowing including an entire
>> episode devoted to Danny's great, great, grandson indicted that Danny
>> should have lived.
>
> He's not convinced me either. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he's
> back in the Christmas special...

God... I hope not. That would be pretty awful. The only way it would
halfway work is if Clara is already pregnant. Then there's no need for
Danny to come back.
Your Name
2014-11-10 00:41:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <P-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:101120140929104388%***@YourISP.com...
> > In article <tP-dnW-9-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
> > <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >> >>
> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
> >> >>he's improved a lot!
> >> >
> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
> >>
> >> From you and the solar idiot.
> >>
> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for
> >> the girl's sister to come back
> >
> > As a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings for helping
> > communicate with the Doctor and save the planet.
>
> Why? Where was that referenced in the dialogue?

Not in the dialogue, but the fact that all the trees had disappeared
except the one at the girl's garden gate, which then disappeared in
it's sheen of sparkles as she approached to reveal the missing sister.



> Why did the sister go missing in the first place?

We don't know, and it's pretty irrelevant to the storyline.



> What reason serving the plot and only the plot justifies the sister's
> return?

As I said, probably as a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings.



> There isn't one, and why should she decide to return at that exact
> point? This was nothing more than bad writing.

The fact that she is revealed by the glowy being removing the last tree
would seem to indicate that it was they're doing, rather than the
sister deciding to return at the coincidental moment.




> >> and there is no justification in the story of Death in Heaven for the boy
> >> Danny shot to come back from the dead either let alone take Danny's
> >> place.
> >
> > Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
> > made.
>
> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was entirely
> innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him. What was
> Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny has a future
> as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time traveller from
> Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it. Did he have some
> sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car deliberately? Again this
> was nothing more than bad writing.

I think you need to learn about human emotions, reactions, the
complexity of their thought processes, etc. ... by the way, you're
obviously a stranger to these parts, so welcome to Earth. ;-)
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 02:49:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:101120141341072389%***@YourISP.com...
> In article <P-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
> <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:101120140929104388%***@YourISP.com...
>> > In article <tP-dnW-9-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
>> > <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
>> >> >>racism,
>> >> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >> >
>> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>> >>
>> >> From you and the solar idiot.
>> >>
>> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
>> >> for
>> >> the girl's sister to come back
>> >
>> > As a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings for helping
>> > communicate with the Doctor and save the planet.
>>
>> Why? Where was that referenced in the dialogue?
>
> Not in the dialogue, but the fact that all the trees had disappeared
> except the one at the girl's garden gate, which then disappeared in
> it's sheen of sparkles as she approached to reveal the missing sister.
>

Which tells us nothing except it was bolted on at the end so that Moffat
could pull a happy ending all out of the blue.

>
>
>> Why did the sister go missing in the first place?
>
> We don't know, and it's pretty irrelevant to the storyline.
>

It's totally relevant to the story line especially with the girl coming
back.

>
>
>> What reason serving the plot and only the plot justifies the sister's
>> return?
>
> As I said, probably as a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings.
>

It doesn't say that in the dialogue and therefore the story is deficient due
to the girl popping up out of the blue without any explanation.

>
>
>> There isn't one, and why should she decide to return at that exact
>> point? This was nothing more than bad writing.
>
> The fact that she is revealed by the glowy being removing the last tree
> would seem to indicate that it was they're doing, rather than the
> sister deciding to return at the coincidental moment.

How do you know that? There were glowy trees everywhere covering lots of
things. Where in the script does it say the trees brought her back, how,
why, why did she go missing and was she even human?

>
>
>> >> and there is no justification in the story of Death in Heaven for the
>> >> boy
>> >> Danny shot to come back from the dead either let alone take Danny's
>> >> place.
>> >
>> > Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>> > made.
>>
>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>> entirely
>> innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him. What was
>> Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny has a
>> future
>> as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time traveller
>> from
>> Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it. Did he have some
>> sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car deliberately? Again
>> this
>> was nothing more than bad writing.
>
> I think you need to learn about human emotions, reactions, the
> complexity of their thought processes, etc. ... by the way, you're
> obviously a stranger to these parts, so welcome to Earth. ;-)

Not from one of Stephen Moffat's warped and twisted morality sermons and
crap about promises.

If Danny was in love with Clara he would have saved himself so that she
could be with him. Self preservation comes above all other human drives and
instincts and Danny's behaviour was not convincing or convincingly written.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 15:18:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>news:101120141341072389%***@YourISP.com...
>> In article <P-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
>> <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>> news:101120140929104388%***@YourISP.com...
>>> > In article <tP-dnW-9-***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
>>> > <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>>> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>>> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>>> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>>> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>>> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not
>>> >> >>> a
>>> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
>>> >> >>racism,
>>> >> >>he's improved a lot!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>>> >>
>>> >> From you and the solar idiot.
>>> >>
>>> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
>>> >> for
>>> >> the girl's sister to come back
>>> >
>>> > As a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings for helping
>>> > communicate with the Doctor and save the planet.
>>>
>>> Why? Where was that referenced in the dialogue?
>>
>> Not in the dialogue, but the fact that all the trees had disappeared
>> except the one at the girl's garden gate, which then disappeared in
>> it's sheen of sparkles as she approached to reveal the missing sister.
>>
>
>Which tells us nothing except it was bolted on at the end so that Moffat
>could pull a happy ending all out of the blue.
>
>>
>>
>>> Why did the sister go missing in the first place?
>>
>> We don't know, and it's pretty irrelevant to the storyline.
>>
>
>It's totally relevant to the story line especially with the girl coming
>back.
>
>>
>>
>>> What reason serving the plot and only the plot justifies the sister's
>>> return?
>>
>> As I said, probably as a thank you to the girl from the glowy beings.
>>
>
>It doesn't say that in the dialogue and therefore the story is deficient due
>to the girl popping up out of the blue without any explanation.
>
>>
>>
>>> There isn't one, and why should she decide to return at that exact
>>> point? This was nothing more than bad writing.
>>
>> The fact that she is revealed by the glowy being removing the last tree
>> would seem to indicate that it was they're doing, rather than the
>> sister deciding to return at the coincidental moment.
>
>How do you know that? There were glowy trees everywhere covering lots of
>things. Where in the script does it say the trees brought her back, how,
>why, why did she go missing and was she even human?
>
>>
>>
>>> >> and there is no justification in the story of Death in Heaven for the
>>> >> boy
>>> >> Danny shot to come back from the dead either let alone take Danny's
>>> >> place.
>>> >
>>> > Danny sacrificing himself to make ammends for a (perceived) mistake he
>>> > made.
>>>
>>> Danny behaving like a complete idiot more like. He's met the boy, he's
>>> apologised, end of story. The boy means nothing to him and the viewer. We
>>> don't know who he is, what he's done in the past or even if he was
>>> entirely
>>> innocent. There's nothing connecting him to the viewer with him. What was
>>> Danny's relationship with Clara supposed to be based on? Danny has a
>>> future
>>> as we saw his great, great grandson becoming the first time traveller
>>> from
>>> Earth. What does the boy do for mankind? Danny saved it. Did he have some
>>> sort of death wish? Did he walk in front of the car deliberately? Again
>>> this
>>> was nothing more than bad writing.
>>
>> I think you need to learn about human emotions, reactions, the
>> complexity of their thought processes, etc. ... by the way, you're
>> obviously a stranger to these parts, so welcome to Earth. ;-)
>
>Not from one of Stephen Moffat's warped and twisted morality sermons and
>crap about promises.
>
>If Danny was in love with Clara he would have saved himself so that she
>could be with him. Self preservation comes above all other human drives and
>instincts and Danny's behaviour was not convincing or convincingly written.
>
>

Between SM and RTD, warped and twisted morality sermons seem to be the
order of the day.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Stephen Wilson
2014-11-10 17:32:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:m3ql0p$n2t$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...

>
> Between SM and RTD, warped and twisted morality sermons seem to be the
> order of the day.

You'd better stop watching. Burn your Dr Who videos. They'll pollute your
mind and you'll end up in hell.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 22:15:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-10, Stephen Wilson <***@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> news:m3ql0p$n2t$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>
>>
>> Between SM and RTD, warped and twisted morality sermons seem to be the
>> order of the day.
>
> You'd better stop watching. Burn your Dr Who videos. They'll pollute your
> mind and you'll end up in hell.
>
>

Looks likes you threw out discernemt 40 years ago like Your Name.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
solar penguin
2014-11-11 11:53:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:49:25 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:

> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:101120141341072389%***@YourISP.com...
>>
>> I think you need to learn about human emotions, reactions, the
>> complexity of their thought processes, etc. ... by the way, you're
>> obviously a stranger to these parts, so welcome to Earth. ;-)
>
> Not from one of Stephen Moffat's warped and twisted morality sermons and
> crap about promises.
>
> If Danny was in love with Clara he would have saved himself so that she
> could be with him. Self preservation comes above all other human drives
> and instincts and Danny's behaviour was not convincing or convincingly
> written.

Some strong negative emotions (e.g. depression, guilt, unrequited love,
etc.) can over-ride the human drive for self-preservation. That's why
people commit suicide.

Danny was repeatedly shown as having very strong emotions, especially
guilt and depression (e.g. his breakdown in the classroom). So being
emotional enough for self-sacrifice is in character for him.

OTOH the real mystery is why his limiter didn't prevent those emotions
now that it's switched on. Even if love was a promise, guilt and
depression aren't. (And he was specifically told that deleting his
emotions would prevent him from feeling guilt over the boy's death. Is
that the difference between deleting emotions and limiting them?)
Your Name
2014-11-11 20:08:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <m3stb2$7qi$***@dont-email.me>, solar penguin
<***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:49:25 +0000, Agamemnon wrote:
> > "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> > news:101120141341072389%***@YourISP.com...
> >>
> >> I think you need to learn about human emotions, reactions, the
> >> complexity of their thought processes, etc. ... by the way, you're
> >> obviously a stranger to these parts, so welcome to Earth. ;-)
> >
> > Not from one of Stephen Moffat's warped and twisted morality sermons and
> > crap about promises.
> >
> > If Danny was in love with Clara he would have saved himself so that she
> > could be with him. Self preservation comes above all other human drives
> > and instincts and Danny's behaviour was not convincing or convincingly
> > written.
>
> Some strong negative emotions (e.g. depression, guilt, unrequited love,
> etc.) can over-ride the human drive for self-preservation. That's why
> people commit suicide.
<snip>

You'll have to forgive Agamemnon. He's not human and is apparently a
being from the planet Dumbass (or maybe America, but we all know that
largely the same thing).
TB
2014-11-09 21:58:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >>>
> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >>>
> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >>>
> >>
> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
> >>he's improved a lot!
> >
> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>
> From you and the solar idiot.
>
> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for the
> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story of
> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead either let
> alone take Danny's place.

If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?

I do remember hints earlier in the season about Danny having killed a wrong person.
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 22:19:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >>>
>> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
>> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
>> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >
>> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>>
>> From you and the solar idiot.
>>
>> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for
>> the
>> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story of
>> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead either
>> let
>> alone take Danny's place.
>
> If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
> him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?

That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the difference
between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the survival of
the human race and if the kid was my own.

Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't important to
the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race and was
likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference between
their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even meet the
kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely shooting
back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's die
then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain revenge?
Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm more
lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other people.
Why didn't Moffat discuss any of these factors?

>
> I do remember hints earlier in the season about Danny having killed a
> wrong person.

It wasn't his fault he killed the kid. He was following his orders and
making the village safe for his comrades and other civilians. What about all
the other people he killed? Don't they deserve to come back? Most were not
fighting in the war because they wanted to. None of those questions were
ever asked and none of them answered. The entire situation was bad writing.
If Moffat wants to deal with subject matter like that in his writing then he
should either do it properly or not do it at all.
TB
2014-11-09 22:37:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not a
> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of racism,
> >> >>he's improved a lot!
> >> >
> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
> >>
> >> From you and the solar idiot.
> >>
> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night for
> >> the
> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story of
> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead either
> >> let
> >> alone take Danny's place.
> >
> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
>
> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the difference
> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the survival of
> the human race and if the kid was my own.
>
> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't important to
> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race and was
> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference between
> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even meet the
> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely shooting
> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's die
> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain revenge?

Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he thinks they might still be alive.

> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm more
> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other people.

That kid didn't appear prone to violence. He is now with Clara, who I am certain will not permit him to become an insurgent.
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 23:28:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
>> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
>> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
>> >> >>racism,
>> >> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >> >
>> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>> >>
>> >> From you and the solar idiot.
>> >>
>> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
>> >> for
>> >> the
>> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story
>> >> of
>> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead
>> >> either
>> >> let
>> >> alone take Danny's place.
>> >
>> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
>> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
>>
>> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the difference
>> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the survival
>> of
>> the human race and if the kid was my own.
>>
>> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't important
>> to
>> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race and
>> was
>> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference between
>> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even meet
>> the
>> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
>> shooting
>> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's die
>> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
>> revenge?
>
> Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
> thinks they might still be alive.
>

Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his parents
when Danny killed him then why?

>> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm more
>> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
>> people.
>
> That kid didn't appear prone to violence.

That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they might
turn him into another insurgent.

>He is now with Clara, who I am certain will not permit him to become an
>insurgent.

Try explaining that one to the authorities.
TB
2014-11-10 07:53:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, November 9, 2014 3:28:14 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> >> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> >> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become a
> >> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's not
> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
> >> >> >>racism,
> >> >> >>he's improved a lot!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
> >> >>
> >> >> From you and the solar idiot.
> >> >>
> >> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
> >> >> for
> >> >> the
> >> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the story
> >> >> of
> >> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead
> >> >> either
> >> >> let
> >> >> alone take Danny's place.
> >> >
> >> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
> >> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
> >>
> >> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the difference
> >> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the survival
> >> of
> >> the human race and if the kid was my own.
> >>
> >> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't important
> >> to
> >> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race and
> >> was
> >> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference between
> >> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even meet
> >> the
> >> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
> >> shooting
> >> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's die
> >> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
> >> revenge?
> >
> > Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
> > thinks they might still be alive.
> >
>
> Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his parents
> when Danny killed him then why?

His parents may have moved or been killed since Danny killed him.
>
> >> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm more
> >> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
> >> people.
> >
> > That kid didn't appear prone to violence.
>
> That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they might
> turn him into another insurgent.

Wouldn't his parents be so overjoyed at their son's survival that they would not want him to ever risk his life in combat again?
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 21:08:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:ef552953-e167-4266-b774-***@googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, November 9, 2014 3:28:14 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> >> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
>> >> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> >> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become
>> >> >> >>>> a
>> >> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's
>> >> >> >>> not
>> >> >> >>> a
>> >> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
>> >> >> >>racism,
>> >> >> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From you and the solar idiot.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the
>> >> >> story
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead
>> >> >> either
>> >> >> let
>> >> >> alone take Danny's place.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
>> >> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
>> >>
>> >> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the
>> >> difference
>> >> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the
>> >> survival
>> >> of
>> >> the human race and if the kid was my own.
>> >>
>> >> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't
>> >> important
>> >> to
>> >> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race
>> >> and
>> >> was
>> >> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference
>> >> between
>> >> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even
>> >> meet
>> >> the
>> >> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
>> >> shooting
>> >> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's
>> >> die
>> >> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
>> >> revenge?
>> >
>> > Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
>> > thinks they might still be alive.
>> >
>>
>> Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his parents
>> when Danny killed him then why?
>
> His parents may have moved or been killed since Danny killed him.
>>
>> >> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm
>> >> more
>> >> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
>> >> people.
>> >
>> > That kid didn't appear prone to violence.
>>
>> That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they might
>> turn him into another insurgent.
>
> Wouldn't his parents be so overjoyed at their son's survival that they
> would not want him to ever risk his life in combat again?

This is tribal Afghanistan we're talking about. His parents were probably
fighting for the Taliban and trying to kill Danny and his comrades and would
probably be overjoyed to have any of their children fighting for the cause
or planting road side bombs or becoming suicide bombers. To them their
children are martyrs.

If that's not enough look at how many times Afghan and Iraqi soldiers,
police and security personnel the British have trained have turned around
and shot dead the people who were training them or they were supposed to
protect. And look at the dozens of Iraqis that were brought here to be
trained as soldiers and instead have gone on the rampage and raped and
sexually assaulted both men and women in the surrounding villages.

It's time to start living in the real world.
TB
2014-11-11 04:49:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:08:00 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:ef552953-e167-4266-b774-***@googlegroups.com...
> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 3:28:14 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> >> news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> >> >> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
> >> >> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> >> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> >> >> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to become
> >> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's
> >> >> >> >>> not
> >> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
> >> >> >> >>racism,
> >> >> >> >>he's improved a lot!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From you and the solar idiot.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Night
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the
> >> >> >> story
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead
> >> >> >> either
> >> >> >> let
> >> >> >> alone take Danny's place.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to bring
> >> >> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
> >> >>
> >> >> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the
> >> >> difference
> >> >> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the
> >> >> survival
> >> >> of
> >> >> the human race and if the kid was my own.
> >> >>
> >> >> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't
> >> >> important
> >> >> to
> >> >> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race
> >> >> and
> >> >> was
> >> >> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference
> >> >> between
> >> >> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even
> >> >> meet
> >> >> the
> >> >> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
> >> >> shooting
> >> >> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's
> >> >> die
> >> >> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
> >> >> revenge?
> >> >
> >> > Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
> >> > thinks they might still be alive.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his parents
> >> when Danny killed him then why?
> >
> > His parents may have moved or been killed since Danny killed him.
> >>
> >> >> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm
> >> >> more
> >> >> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
> >> >> people.
> >> >
> >> > That kid didn't appear prone to violence.
> >>
> >> That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they might
> >> turn him into another insurgent.
> >
> > Wouldn't his parents be so overjoyed at their son's survival that they
> > would not want him to ever risk his life in combat again?
>
> This is tribal Afghanistan we're talking about. His parents were probably
> fighting for the Taliban and trying to kill Danny and his comrades and would
> probably be overjoyed to have any of their children fighting for the cause
> or planting road side bombs or becoming suicide bombers. To them their
> children are martyrs.

I bet that that kid now has a favorable opinion of British soldiers due to Danny giving up his last chance for life on his behalf. He may be in danger if he's returned to his parents! Perhaps Clara should adopt him and name him "Pink", so that his bloodline can someday produce the great time traveler "Orson Pink"!
solar penguin
2014-11-11 09:54:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:49:01 -0800, TB wrote:

> On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:08:00 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>> This is tribal Afghanistan we're talking about. His parents were
>> probably fighting for the Taliban and trying to kill Danny and his
>> comrades and would probably be overjoyed to have any of their children
>> fighting for the cause or planting road side bombs or becoming suicide
>> bombers. To them their children are martyrs.
>
> I bet that that kid now has a favorable opinion of British soldiers due
> to Danny giving up his last chance for life on his behalf.

And for the past few years he's experienced an afterlife that's very,
very different from Islam's official version. He's gotta be a _lot_less
likely to become a radical follower of Islam (or _any_ existing religion)
now.

> He may be in
> danger if he's returned to his parents! Perhaps Clara should adopt him
> and name him "Pink", so that his bloodline can someday produce the great
> time traveler "Orson Pink"!

Good theory. I like it. But it doesn't explain why Orson looks so much
like Danny, or how he had the toy soldier, which IIRC at this point in
its timeline still ought to be in with Danny's things.
Agamemnon
2014-11-11 11:47:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:2bd11207-9bf4-4b57-b3a6-***@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:08:00 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:ef552953-e167-4266-b774-***@googlegroups.com...
> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 3:28:14 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> >> news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> >> >> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
> >> >> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> >> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
> >> >> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to
> >> >> >> >>>> become
> >> >> >> >>>> a
> >> >> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that's
> >> >> >> >>> not
> >> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
> >> >> >> >>racism,
> >> >> >> >>he's improved a lot!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From you and the solar idiot.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the
> >> >> >> Night
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the
> >> >> >> story
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dead
> >> >> >> either
> >> >> >> let
> >> >> >> alone take Danny's place.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to
> >> >> > bring
> >> >> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
> >> >>
> >> >> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the
> >> >> difference
> >> >> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the
> >> >> survival
> >> >> of
> >> >> the human race and if the kid was my own.
> >> >>
> >> >> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't
> >> >> important
> >> >> to
> >> >> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race
> >> >> and
> >> >> was
> >> >> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference
> >> >> between
> >> >> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even
> >> >> meet
> >> >> the
> >> >> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
> >> >> shooting
> >> >> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent's
> >> >> die
> >> >> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
> >> >> revenge?
> >> >
> >> > Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
> >> > thinks they might still be alive.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his
> >> parents
> >> when Danny killed him then why?
> >
> > His parents may have moved or been killed since Danny killed him.
> >>
> >> >> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm
> >> >> more
> >> >> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
> >> >> people.
> >> >
> >> > That kid didn't appear prone to violence.
> >>
> >> That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they
> >> might
> >> turn him into another insurgent.
> >
> > Wouldn't his parents be so overjoyed at their son's survival that they
> > would not want him to ever risk his life in combat again?
>
> This is tribal Afghanistan we're talking about. His parents were probably
> fighting for the Taliban and trying to kill Danny and his comrades and
> would
> probably be overjoyed to have any of their children fighting for the cause
> or planting road side bombs or becoming suicide bombers. To them their
> children are martyrs.

<<<I bet that that kid now has a favorable opinion of British soldiers due
to Danny >>>

I doubt it. I had family serving in the British army (and that's how they
got into watching Doctor Who because of UNIT) but that doesn't mean they
agreed with everything the British did.

<<<giving up his last chance for life on his behalf. He may be in danger if
he's returned to his parents! >>>

Now he's found out there isn't a god, and there weren't 100 virgins waiting
for him in paradise, of course he's going to be in danger.

<<<Perhaps Clara should adopt him and name him "Pink", so that his bloodline
can someday produce the great time traveler "Orson Pink"!>>>

He looked nothing like Danny Pink.
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:42:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <2bd11207-9bf4-4b57-b3a6-***@googlegroups.com>,
TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:08:00 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message=20
>> news:ef552953-e167-4266-b774-***@googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 3:28:14 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> >> news:6326a309-e575-4245-bc3c-***@googlegroups.com...
>> >> > On Sunday, November 9, 2014 2:19:55 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> >> "TB" <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:5e47a2f8-5cc0-4af1-b825-***@googlegroups.com...
>> >> >> > On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:25:34 PM UTC-8, Agamemnon wrote:
>> >> >> >> "Pudentame" <***@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:56:52 +0000 (UTC), solar penguin
>> >> >> >> > <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:40:41 +0000, Andrew M wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> who he killed by accident and who could have gone on to bec=
>ome=20
>> >> >> >> >>>> a
>> >> >> >> >>>> terrorist himself.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Why on Earth would you make such an assumption? I hope that'=
>s=20
>> >> >> >> >>> not
>> >> >> >> >>> a
>> >> >> >> >>> whiff of racism I detect.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>That's Aggy you're talking about. If there's only a whiff of
>> >> >> >> >>racism,
>> >> >> >> >>he's improved a lot!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > More than a whiff; like living downwind from a hog farm.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> From you and the solar idiot.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The was no justification in the story of In the Forest of the Ni=
>ght
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> girl's sister to come back and there is no justification in the=
>=20
>> >> >> >> story
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> Death in Heaven for the boy Danny shot to come back from the dea=
>d
>> >> >> >> either
>> >> >> >> let
>> >> >> >> alone take Danny's place.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you accidently killed a kid, and were offered the chance to br=
>ing
>> >> >> > him/her back from the dead, wouldn't you jump at that chance?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That would depend if I had to die myself in the processes, the=20
>> >> >> difference
>> >> >> between my age and the kid's age, who was most important to the=20
>> >> >> survival
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the human race and if the kid was my own.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Danny's thinking was irrational. The kid wasn't his, it wasn't=20
>> >> >> important
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> the survival of the human race whereas he just saved the human race=
>=20
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> likely to have kids with Clara, there was hardly and difference=20
>> >> >> between
>> >> >> their ages, and he had to lose his life in the process. Did he even=
>=20
>> >> >> meet
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> kid's parents? Where were they when the kid was shot? Most likely
>> >> >> shooting
>> >> >> back at Danny. Maybe he killed them too. If the kid saw his parent'=
>s=20
>> >> >> die
>> >> >> then don't you think he would have taken up arms itself to obtain
>> >> >> revenge?
>> >> >
>> >> > Danny wanted Clara to find that kid's parents, which implies that he
>> >> > thinks they might still be alive.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Doesn't the kid know who it's parents are? If he wasn't with his paren=
>ts
>> >> when Danny killed him then why?
>> >
>> > His parents may have moved or been killed since Danny killed him.
>> >>
>> >> >> Allowing that kid to return could create another insurgent and harm=
>=20
>> >> >> more
>> >> >> lives whereas Danny was now a teacher and was doing good for other
>> >> >> people.
>> >> >
>> >> > That kid didn't appear prone to violence.
>> >>
>> >> That doesn't prove anything. If he's reunited with his parents they mi=
>ght
>> >> turn him into another insurgent.
>> >
>> > Wouldn't his parents be so overjoyed at their son's survival that they=
>=20
>> > would not want him to ever risk his life in combat again?
>>=20
>> This is tribal Afghanistan we're talking about. His parents were probably=
>=20
>> fighting for the Taliban and trying to kill Danny and his comrades and wo=
>uld=20
>> probably be overjoyed to have any of their children fighting for the caus=
>e=20
>> or planting road side bombs or becoming suicide bombers. To them their=20
>> children are martyrs.
>
>I bet that that kid now has a favorable opinion of British soldiers due to =
>Danny giving up his last chance for life on his behalf. He may be in dange=
>r if he's returned to his parents! Perhaps Clara should adopt him and name=
> him "Pink", so that his bloodline can someday produce the great time trave=
>ler "Orson Pink"!

Maybe.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Lest we forget 2014
Bill Jillians
2014-11-10 18:33:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
<***@btinternet.com> writes
>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>
>
>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
>the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
>point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
>The boy he killed did not.

Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.


I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead
coming back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the
Master was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was
heading into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.

--
Bill Jillians

---
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Siri Crews
2014-11-10 19:45:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@btinternet.com>,
Bill Jillians <***@btinternet.com> wrote:

> In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
> <***@btinternet.com> writes
> >On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >
> >
> >Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
> >the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
> >point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
> >The boy he killed did not.
>
> Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
> wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.

The answer to that question depends on the beliefs of the viewer.

> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead

Doctor Who has come to pretty much stomp all over religion and so any question
of spirituality. The Doctor speaking the writers's word says the dead puff out
of existence.

> heading into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.

The noisier ones tend to be Americans who regard all European programs as
Satanic.

I wonder: since cybermen retain their human brains inside their tin bodies, are
they satanic or stannic?

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 21:17:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Bill Jillians" <***@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:***@btinternet.com...
> In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
> <***@btinternet.com> writes
>>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>
>>
>>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was the
>>choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the point. If
>>they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice. The boy he
>>killed did not.
>
> Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
> wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
>

What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
creation of the Master.

>
> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead coming
> back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the Master
> was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was heading
> into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
>

It's alreay had over 100 complaints sent to the BBC.
Stephen Wilson
2014-11-10 21:29:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:***@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Bill Jillians" <***@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:***@btinternet.com...
>> In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
>> <***@btinternet.com> writes
>>>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was the
>>>choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the point.
>>>If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice. The boy
>>>he killed did not.
>>
>> Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
>> wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
>>
>
> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
> creation of the Master.
>
>>
>> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead coming
>> back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the Master
>> was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was heading
>> into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
>>
>
> It's alreay had over 100 complaints sent to the BBC.

But were they from a religious point of view?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29908743 mentions people being "disturbed"
because the story revolves around death and cremation. I don't think a lot
of British adults like thinking about death. And lots of religions don't
like people being taught that there are alternative theories about what
happens when you die than the ones they ram down people's throats...
The Doctor
2014-11-10 22:16:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-10, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
> "Bill Jillians" <***@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:***@btinternet.com...
>> In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
>> <***@btinternet.com> writes
>>>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was the
>>>choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the point. If
>>>they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice. The boy he
>>>killed did not.
>>
>> Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
>> wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
>>
>
> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
> creation of the Master.
>
>>
>> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead coming
>> back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the Master
>> was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was heading
>> into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
>>
>
> It's alreay had over 100 complaints sent to the BBC.
>
>

URL please.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
t***@gmail.com
2014-11-11 05:40:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:

> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
> creation of the Master.
>

What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?

The most idiotic thing to me is the Doctor leaving the Mistress in *handcuffs* with two dumbass guards, next to his TARDIS (I was thinking she might break into it - maybe she already did and we'll find out later.)

Oh it just came to me, if UNIT had no access to St. Paul's Cathedral, how did they get the TARDIS out?
Siri Crews
2014-11-11 06:31:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <101c5ce8-334b-4e33-9315-***@googlegroups.com>,
***@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:
>
> > What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
> > creation of the Master.
> >
>
> What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?
>
> The most idiotic thing to me is the Doctor leaving the Mistress in
> *handcuffs* with two dumbass guards, next to his TARDIS (I was thinking she
> might break into it - maybe she already did and we'll find out later.)

I was thinking handcuff him to points on the airframe with the cuffs in full
sight all the time.


Or just head shot him.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:44:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <chine.bleu-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Siri Crews <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <101c5ce8-334b-4e33-9315-***@googlegroups.com>,
> ***@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>> > What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
>> > creation of the Master.
>> >
>>
>> What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?
>>
>> The most idiotic thing to me is the Doctor leaving the Mistress in
>> *handcuffs* with two dumbass guards, next to his TARDIS (I was thinking she
>> might break into it - maybe she already did and we'll find out later.)
>
>I was thinking handcuff him to points on the airframe with the cuffs in full
>sight all the time.
>
>
>Or just head shot him.
>

Regeneration might occur.

>--
>:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
>Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.


--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
solar penguin
2014-11-11 09:46:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:40:44 -0800, torasii wrote:

> On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:
>
>> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was
>> all a creation of the Master.
>>
>>
> What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?
>

A portal connecting Missy's Nethersphere to the physical world, created
using the (presumably Gallifreyan) tech in Missy's bracelet.
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:47:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <m3sltf$i2o$***@dont-email.me>,
solar penguin <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:40:44 -0800, torasii wrote:
>
>> On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was
>>> all a creation of the Master.
>>>
>>>
>> What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?
>>
>
>A portal connecting Missy's Nethersphere to the physical world, created
>using the (presumably Gallifreyan) tech in Missy's bracelet.

Makes sense.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:43:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <101c5ce8-334b-4e33-9315-***@googlegroups.com>,
<***@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 10 November 2014 16:17:05 UTC-5, Agamemnon wrote:
>
>> What paradise? The story showed that there was no such thing. It was all a
>> creation of the Master.
>>
>
>What about the glowy thing that Danny spoke out of?
>
>The most idiotic thing to me is the Doctor leaving the Mistress in *handcuffs* with two dumbass guards, next to his TARDIS (I was thinking she might break into it - maybe she already did and we'll find out later.)
>
>Oh it just came to me, if UNIT had no access to St. Paul's Cathedral, how did they get the TARDIS out?

They can home in the Doctor, but not the MAster's.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Ryan P.
2014-11-11 19:19:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 11/10/2014 11:40 PM, ***@gmail.com wrote:
otic thing to me is the Doctor leaving the Mistress in *handcuffs* with
two dumbass guards, next to his TARDIS (I was thinking she might break
into it - maybe she already did and we'll find out later.)


I'm thinking that there are multiple Master Clones out there, each
acting like the Original. Like they did with Baal in Stargate.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 22:15:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-10, Bill Jillians <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
><***@btinternet.com> writes
>>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>>
>>
>>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
>>the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
>>point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
>>The boy he killed did not.
>
> Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
> wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
>
>
> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead
> coming back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the
> Master was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was
> heading into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
>

And the Master's sins will find him out.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Siri Crews
2014-11-11 06:29:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>,
The Doctor <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> On 2014-11-10, Bill Jillians <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
> ><***@btinternet.com> writes
> >>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
> >>
> >>
> >>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
> >>the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
> >>point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
> >>The boy he killed did not.
> >
> > Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
> > wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
> >
> >
> > I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead
> > coming back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the
> > Master was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was
> > heading into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
> >
>
> And the Master's sins will find him out.

The Master is a fictional character. What happens to him depends on the producer.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:44:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <chine.bleu-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Siri Crews <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>,
> The Doctor <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-11-10, Bill Jillians <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > In message <2014110823404196578-***@btinternetcom>, Andrew M
>> ><***@btinternet.com> writes
>> >>On 2014-11-08 22:22:16 +0000, Agamemnon said:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Maybe they did. But he could only send one of them back and that was
>> >>the choice he made. And surely the "only doing the job" thing is the
>> >>point. If they were "only doing their job", they at least had a choice.
>> >>The boy he killed did not.
>> >
>> > Also Danny... having saved the world would probably be in Paradise. He
>> > wouldn't want to risk his place there by being selfish ... I assume.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm surprised nobody mentioned the religious overtones of the dead
>> > coming back to life. Seeing as the Doctor saved humanity again and the
>> > Master was responsible for the afterlife I would think that episode was
>> > heading into the realms of blasphemy with some religious sects.
>> >
>>
>> And the Master's sins will find him out.
>
>The Master is a fictional character. What happens to him depends on the producer.
>

I was quoting Rassillon in the 5 Doctors.

>--
>:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
>Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.


--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
T987654321
2014-11-09 04:03:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
TB
2014-11-09 05:33:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.

What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS consul?

At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the Doctor want for Christmas?
solar penguin
2014-11-09 07:11:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800, TB wrote:

> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
>> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
>
> What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the
> TARDIS consul?

Gallifrey wasn't where Missy said it was. That's what was wrong.

(But I didn't see the Doctor bang any diplomats, even if he is president!)

>
> At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
> Doctor want for Christmas?

Better scripts?
Adam H. Kerman
2014-11-09 12:29:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
solar penguin <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800, TB wrote:
>>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:

>>>That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.

>>What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the
>>TARDIS consul?

>Gallifrey wasn't where Missy said it was. That's what was wrong.

Why couldn't it have been? Did The Doctor cross dimensional boundaries? Why
would Missy have known anyway?

>(But I didn't see the Doctor bang any diplomats, even if he is president!)

>>At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>Doctor want for Christmas?

>Better scripts?

+1
The Doctor
2014-11-09 13:34:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-09, Adam H. Kerman <***@chinet.com> wrote:
> solar penguin <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800, TB wrote:
>>>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
>
>>>>That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
>
>>>What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the
>>>TARDIS consul?
>
>>Gallifrey wasn't where Missy said it was. That's what was wrong.
>
> Why couldn't it have been? Did The Doctor cross dimensional boundaries? Why
> would Missy have known anyway?
>
>>(But I didn't see the Doctor bang any diplomats, even if he is president!)
>
>>>At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>Doctor want for Christmas?
>
>>Better scripts?
>
> +1

MAybe Moffat should give way.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Pudentame
2014-11-09 20:01:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:29:20 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<***@chinet.com> wrote:

>solar penguin <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800, TB wrote:
>>>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
>
>>>>That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
>
>>>What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the
>>>TARDIS consul?
>
>>Gallifrey wasn't where Missy said it was. That's what was wrong.
>
>Why couldn't it have been? Did The Doctor cross dimensional boundaries? Why
>would Missy have known anyway?
>

Because Missy is The Master. It's in the script that she escaped from
Gallifrey when the Doctors saved it, and by implication knows where it
was when she left it.

I think part of The Doctor's anger is directed at himself because he's
once again fallen for one of The Master's lies.

Being "The Master", Missy lies whenever she can hurt The Doctor.

Knowing that she's about to "die", she leaves behind one more
poisonous lie.

Of course, I don't think she really dies there. Missy (or The Master)
will be back again. Steve Moffat as much as says so in the Doctor Who
Extra for Death In Heaven:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6L5Djpt3w

It's at about 12:15.
Pudentame
2014-11-09 19:34:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
wrote:

>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
>> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
>
>What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS consul?
>

It wasn't there. He's angry, mostly with himself, because he fell for
another of The Master's (Missy's) lies.

He was lying to Clara about finding Gallifrey at the coordinates Missy
had given. While he's telling her that he's going home, the flashback
is showing us that Gallifrey is still lost.

Don't count Missy out either. When Cyber-Lethbridge-Stewart supposedly
shot Missy in the graveyard, she disappeared with the same blue flash
that surrounded her when she teleported off the airplane before the
cybermen blew it up.

>At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the Doctor want for Christmas?

It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.

Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
he's Father Christmas.
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 19:52:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
> Don't count Missy out either. When Cyber-Lethbridge-Stewart supposedly
> shot Missy in the graveyard, she disappeared with the same blue flash
> that surrounded her when she teleported off the airplane before the

The Master should be reduced piece by piece just like Davros. Pretty soon it
will be the Doctor versus the Master's eyebrows.

> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
> he's Father Christmas.

After all they already had Simon Pegg.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
Your Name
2014-11-09 20:34:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
<***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
> wrote:
> >
> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the Doctor
> >want for Christmas?
>
> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>
> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
> he's Father Christmas.

He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 22:27:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>> >Doctor
>> >want for Christmas?
>>
>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>
>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>> he's Father Christmas.
>
> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.

Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
The Doctor
2014-11-09 23:48:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>> >Doctor
>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>
>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>
>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>
>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>
> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>
>

Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Agamemnon
2014-11-09 23:58:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>> >Doctor
>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>
>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>
>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>
>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>
>>
>
> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>

He knocked on the door.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 00:27:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>
>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>
>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>
>
>He knocked on the door.
>
>

How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Pudentame
2014-11-10 01:20:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:27:37 +0000 (UTC), ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
(The Doctor) wrote:

>In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>
>>
>>He knocked on the door.
>>
>>
>
>How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?

You'll have to watch the Christmas Special to find out.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 01:29:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>,
Pudentame <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:27:37 +0000 (UTC), ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>(The Doctor) wrote:
>
>>In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>>Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>
>>>
>>>He knocked on the door.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
>
>You'll have to watch the Christmas Special to find out.

And the rest of us.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 01:35:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:m3p0pp$mjl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>> UK
>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>
>>
>>He knocked on the door.
>>
>>
>
> How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?

It materialised on the north pole, or was it the south pole. Some pole or
other.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 01:41:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <Wu-***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>news:m3p0pp$mjl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>
>>>
>>>He knocked on the door.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
>
>It materialised on the north pole, or was it the south pole. Some pole or
>other.
>
>

More likely mid air.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 02:50:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:m3p547$re6$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <Wu-***@eclipse.net.uk>,
> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>news:m3p0pp$mjl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>> In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with,
>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He knocked on the door.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
>>
>>It materialised on the north pole, or was it the south pole. Some pole or
>>other.
>>
>>
>
> More likely mid air.

Why's that?
The Doctor
2014-11-10 15:19:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>news:m3p547$re6$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> In article <Wu-***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>news:m3p0pp$mjl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>>> In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>>>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with,
>>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>He knocked on the door.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
>>>
>>>It materialised on the north pole, or was it the south pole. Some pole or
>>>other.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> More likely mid air.
>
>Why's that?
>
>

I thought the TARDIS had not materialised on ground.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Pudentame
2014-11-11 20:33:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:19:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
(The Doctor) wrote:

>In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>news:m3p547$re6$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>> In article <Wu-***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:m3p0pp$mjl$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>>>> In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
>>>>> Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with,
>>>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He knocked on the door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How would Santa know where the TARDIS was?
>>>>
>>>>It materialised on the north pole, or was it the south pole. Some pole or
>>>>other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> More likely mid air.
>>
>>Why's that?
>>
>>
>
>I thought the TARDIS had not materialised on ground.

It didn't really show where The TARDIS was.

North pole seems logical since that's apparently the setting for the
upcoming Christmas Special. The Doctor may have just landed somewhere
to mope around, similar to him going to the monestary in 1203 to
contemplate the mystery of Clara Oswald at the beginning of "The Bells
of Saint John".
Pudentame
2014-11-10 01:19:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:48:42 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor
<***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

>On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>> >Doctor
>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>
>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>
>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>
>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>
>>
>
>Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?

Based on the background behind him in the scene, he knocked on the
door & the TARDIS let him in.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 01:28:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>,
Pudentame <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:48:42 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor
><***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>
>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>
>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>
>Based on the background behind him in the scene, he knocked on the
>door & the TARDIS let him in.

Santa would n eed to know where the TARDIS was.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Agamemnon
2014-11-10 02:51:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:m3p4ce$qkr$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <***@4ax.com>,
> Pudentame <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:48:42 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor
>><***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>> UK
>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>
>>Based on the background behind him in the scene, he knocked on the
>>door & the TARDIS let him in.
>
> Santa would n eed to know where the TARDIS was.

It wasn't the real Santa. The TARDIS popped up out of the blue and a guy
dressed as Santa knocked on the door.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 15:20:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <7-***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>news:m3p4ce$qkr$***@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> In article <***@4ax.com>,
>> Pudentame <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 23:48:42 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor
>>><***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the
>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>
>>>Based on the background behind him in the scene, he knocked on the
>>>door & the TARDIS let him in.
>>
>> Santa would n eed to know where the TARDIS was.
>
>It wasn't the real Santa. The TARDIS popped up out of the blue and a guy
>dressed as Santa knocked on the door.
>
>

This Santa mentioned about getting to the
Doctor and knew about Clara.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Stephen Wilson
2014-11-10 17:21:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>> >Doctor
>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>
>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>
>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>
>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>
>>
>
> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?

The same way he gets down the chimneys of all the good little boys and
girls.

You've not been so good. You'll have to buy your own present.
The Doctor
2014-11-10 22:14:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-10, Stephen Wilson <***@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>>>>> >Doctor
>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>>>>> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>>>>> he's Father Christmas.
>>>>
>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>>>> few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>>
>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>
> The same way he gets down the chimneys of all the good little boys and
> girls.
>
> You've not been so good. You'll have to buy your own present.
>
>

Sorry mate but there is no cimney in the TARDIS and the TARDIS
is a moving location.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
solar penguin
2014-11-11 10:55:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:14:26 +0000, The Doctor wrote:

> On 2014-11-10, Stephen Wilson <***@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> "The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>> >the Doctor
>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>> Santa Claus ... although technically since the program is produced
>>>>>> in the UK he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>> the few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about
>>>>> with, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>
>> The same way he gets down the chimneys of all the good little boys and
>> girls.
>>
>> You've not been so good. You'll have to buy your own present.
>>
>>
>>
> Sorry mate but there is no cimney in the TARDIS and the TARDIS is a
> moving location.

It's not moving if it already landed at the North Pole.

BTW when did Santa move to the North Pole? And why?

When I was a kid, he definitely lived in Lapland. Everyone knew that.

Blue Peter would do a report from the official "real" Santa's Grotto in
Lapland almost every year. Even Nationwide got on the act some years,
with reports from the official Father Christmas Post Office in Lapland,
where children's letters to Santa were answered. And Michael Palin
visited Santa in Lapland on his Pole To Pole journey (and he didn't see
or even mention him at the North Pole on the same journey.)

But at some point in the mid-to-late 1990s everyone suddenly started
talking him at the North Pole. Did he move there to get away from all
those BBC film crews? And if so, was it Palin's visit that put the idea
of the Pole into his head?

I guess we'll never know!
Agamemnon
2014-11-11 11:55:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:m3spum$ucc$***@dont-email.me...
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:14:26 +0000, The Doctor wrote:
>
>> On 2014-11-10, Stephen Wilson <***@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>>> >the Doctor
>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>> Santa Claus ... although technically since the program is produced
>>>>>>> in the UK he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>>> the few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about
>>>>>> with, yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>
>>> The same way he gets down the chimneys of all the good little boys and
>>> girls.
>>>
>>> You've not been so good. You'll have to buy your own present.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sorry mate but there is no cimney in the TARDIS and the TARDIS is a
>> moving location.

No it's not. It's got a black hole situated inside it. Try moving that. As
the Doctor explained in The Robots of Death only the exterior moves. The
interior is fixed in another dimension.

>
> It's not moving if it already landed at the North Pole.
>
> BTW when did Santa move to the North Pole? And why?
>
> When I was a kid, he definitely lived in Lapland. Everyone knew that.
>
> Blue Peter would do a report from the official "real" Santa's Grotto in
> Lapland almost every year. Even Nationwide got on the act some years,
> with reports from the official Father Christmas Post Office in Lapland,
> where children's letters to Santa were answered. And Michael Palin
> visited Santa in Lapland on his Pole To Pole journey (and he didn't see
> or even mention him at the North Pole on the same journey.)
>
> But at some point in the mid-to-late 1990s everyone suddenly started
> talking him at the North Pole. Did he move there to get away from all
> those BBC film crews? And if so, was it Palin's visit that put the idea
> of the Pole into his head?
>
> I guess we'll never know!

How he ended up in Lapland I have no idea let alone the North Pole.

If they want to find the real Santa then they need to visit what is now
Turkey. Though his bones may be in the Vatican or somewhere in Italy now.
The Doctor
2014-11-11 14:49:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>"solar penguin" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>news:m3spum$ucc$***@dont-email.me...
>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:14:26 +0000, The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-11-10, Stephen Wilson <***@ntlworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "The Doctor" <***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca...
>>>>> On 2014-11-09, Agamemnon <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>>>>>>> In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>>>>>>> <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB
>>>>>>>> <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does
>>>>>>>> >the Doctor
>>>>>>>> >want for Christmas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as
>>>>>>>> Santa Claus ... although technically since the program is produced
>>>>>>>> in the UK he's Father Christmas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>>>>>>> people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of
>>>>>>> the few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about
>>>>>>> with, yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>>>>>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Still how did Santa access the TARDIS?
>>>>
>>>> The same way he gets down the chimneys of all the good little boys and
>>>> girls.
>>>>
>>>> You've not been so good. You'll have to buy your own present.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Sorry mate but there is no cimney in the TARDIS and the TARDIS is a
>>> moving location.
>
>No it's not. It's got a black hole situated inside it. Try moving that. As
>the Doctor explained in The Robots of Death only the exterior moves. The
>interior is fixed in another dimension.
>
>>
>> It's not moving if it already landed at the North Pole.
>>
>> BTW when did Santa move to the North Pole? And why?
>>
>> When I was a kid, he definitely lived in Lapland. Everyone knew that.
>>
>> Blue Peter would do a report from the official "real" Santa's Grotto in
>> Lapland almost every year. Even Nationwide got on the act some years,
>> with reports from the official Father Christmas Post Office in Lapland,
>> where children's letters to Santa were answered. And Michael Palin
>> visited Santa in Lapland on his Pole To Pole journey (and he didn't see
>> or even mention him at the North Pole on the same journey.)
>>
>> But at some point in the mid-to-late 1990s everyone suddenly started
>> talking him at the North Pole. Did he move there to get away from all
>> those BBC film crews? And if so, was it Palin's visit that put the idea
>> of the Pole into his head?
>>
>> I guess we'll never know!
>
>How he ended up in Lapland I have no idea let alone the North Pole.
>
>If they want to find the real Santa then they need to visit what is now
>Turkey. Though his bones may be in the Vatican or somewhere in Italy now.
>
>

Well 25 Dec will be interesting.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Your Name
2014-11-10 00:41:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
<***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
> > In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
> > <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
> >> >Doctor want for Christmas?
> >>
> >> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
> >>
> >> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
> >> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
> >> he's Father Christmas.
> >
> > He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
> > people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
> > few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>
> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.

Good grief. Another dimbulb heading for the killfile. :-\
The Doctor
2014-11-10 01:27:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <101120141341193122%***@YourISP.com>,
Your Name <***@YourISP.com> wrote:
>In article <***@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
><***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>> "Your Name" <***@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:101120140934474646%***@YourISP.com...
>> > In article <***@4ax.com>, Pudentame
>> > <***@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:33:51 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >At the very end, Santa Claus barges into the TARDIS. What does the
>> >> >Doctor want for Christmas?
>> >>
>> >> It's a teaser for the upcoming Christmas Special.
>> >>
>> >> Didn't you recognize "Ed" (Nick Frost) from Shaun of the Dead as Santa
>> >> Claus ... although technically since the program is produced in the UK
>> >> he's Father Christmas.
>> >
>> > He's called "Santa Claus" in the UK as well ... it's the original
>> > people from Europe who took the name to America with them. One of the
>> > few phrases of English that Americans haven't screwed about with, yet.
>>
>> Santa Claus is not English, it's German. In English he's called Saint
>> Nicholas. In the original Greek he's called Agios Nikolaos.
>
>Good grief. Another dimbulb heading for the killfile. :-\

Said YN the idiot.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 19:49:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <eb738e55-2bc1-42f8-9e93-***@googlegroups.com>,
TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

> What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS
> consul?

Does TARDIS have a lot of its citizens visitting the time capsule? It's not
polite to hit diplomatic persons. Unless it's a different kind of banging.....
the Doctor's Wife?

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
TB
2014-11-09 22:01:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, November 9, 2014 11:49:49 AM UTC-8, Siri Crews wrote:
> In article <eb738e55-2bc1-42f8-9e93-***@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> > What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS
> > consul?
>
> Does TARDIS have a lot of its citizens visitting the time capsule? It's not
> polite to hit diplomatic persons. Unless it's a different kind of banging.....
> the Doctor's Wife?

The Doctor has been showing lots of people the inside of his TARDIS this year!
>
> --
> :-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
> 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
> Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
> Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 22:09:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <cb9d9659-d712-48d2-aa55-***@googlegroups.com>,
TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

> On Sunday, November 9, 2014 11:49:49 AM UTC-8, Siri Crews wrote:
> > In article <eb738e55-2bc1-42f8-9e93-***@googlegroups.com>,
> > TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >
> > > What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS
> > > consul?
> >
> > Does TARDIS have a lot of its citizens visitting the time capsule? It's not
> > polite to hit diplomatic persons. Unless it's a different kind of
> > banging.....
> > the Doctor's Wife?
>
> The Doctor has been showing lots of people the inside of his TARDIS this
> year!

The latest South Park episode Magic Bush was about showing lots of people the
insides without their permission.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
The Doctor
2014-11-09 23:49:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2014-11-09, TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 9, 2014 11:49:49 AM UTC-8, Siri Crews wrote:
>> In article <eb738e55-2bc1-42f8-9e93-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>> > What was wrong with Gallifey that caused the Doctor to bang on the TARDIS
>> > consul?
>>
>> Does TARDIS have a lot of its citizens visitting the time capsule? It's not
>> polite to hit diplomatic persons. Unless it's a different kind of banging.....
>> the Doctor's Wife?
>
> The Doctor has been showing lots of people the inside of his TARDIS this year!

This is why I did not like the Caretaker.

>>
>> --
>> :-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>> 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>> Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
>> Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
>


--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Lest we forget 2014
TB
2014-11-09 05:35:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.

So the Doctor thinks that Danny is alive and is boinking Clara silly. I expect that at some point, the Doctor will ask Clara "When is the wedding?". At that point, Clara will have to fess up.
Pudentame
2014-11-09 20:12:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:35:10 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
wrote:

>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
>> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
>
>So the Doctor thinks that Danny is alive and is boinking Clara silly. I expect that at some point, the Doctor will ask Clara "When is the wedding?". At that point, Clara will have to fess up.

Looks like Clara is going to be back for the Christmas Special, so I
expect The Doctor will find out the truth about Danny fairly soon.

The teaser at the end of the episode almost promises it.

:: Doctor! You know it can't end like that! Mm? We need to get this sorted and quickly.
::
:: She's not all right, you know. And neither are you.
TB
2014-11-09 22:03:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, November 9, 2014 12:12:50 PM UTC-8, Pudentame wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:35:10 -0800 (PST), TB <***@dcn.davis.ca.us>
> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, November 8, 2014 8:03:41 PM UTC-8, T987654321 wrote:
> >> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.
> >
> >So the Doctor thinks that Danny is alive and is boinking Clara silly. I expect that at some point, the Doctor will ask Clara "When is the wedding?". At that point, Clara will have to fess up.
>
> Looks like Clara is going to be back for the Christmas Special, so I
> expect The Doctor will find out the truth about Danny fairly soon.
>
> The teaser at the end of the episode almost promises it.
>
> :: Doctor! You know it can't end like that! Mm? We need to get this sorted and quickly.
> ::
> :: She's not all right, you know. And neither are you.

Okay Doctor, ask Santa Claus to bring Danny and Gallifrey back from the dead!
Siri Crews
2014-11-09 07:25:07 UTC
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In article <c129cb82-3327-4b89-92dc-***@googlegroups.com>,
T987654321 <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.

Just like the Harry Chapin's Taxi.

And she walked away in silence,
It's strange, how you never know,
But we'd both gotten what we'd asked for,
Such a long, long time ago.

You see, she was gonna be an actress
And I was gonna learn to fly.
She took off to find the footlights,
And I took off for the sky.
And here, she's acting happy,
Inside her handsome home.
And me, I'm flying in my taxi,
Taking tips, and getting stoned,
I go flying so high, when I'm stoned.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.
Pudentame
2014-11-09 19:16:55 UTC
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On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 20:03:39 -0800 (PST), T987654321
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>That was,um, yah. Loved the way it ended with them both lying.

Seems like both were trying to spare the other's feelings. They both
placed the other's wants & needs above their own.
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