Discussion:
DOCTOR WHO: Twice Upon A Time
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The Last Doctor
2017-12-26 12:24:06 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
“Oh, brilliant.”

SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************

(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don’t seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you’re merely
curious about how I felt about it all).

Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as a
repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The project,
Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced technology - some
sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber, enough memory storage to make
Google weep with envy, and really neat hard-light holograms that can appear
to be transparent, glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take
on the appearance of anyone they know about.

Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not just humans.

Because what Testimony does is to go back in time to moments before a
person’s death, extract them from the interstices between two passing
instants, bring them into the future, record a copy of their entire life,
memories and personality (their soul?) - and then reinsert them back into
time, with no recall of having been abducted, just in time to die.

Which is a neat trick if you can do it.

As it happens we’ve seen this before - this is Missy’s Nethersphere Mark
II, the Nethersphere done right and without evil intent. But in this case,
it’s just a McGuffin. The tool that enables the plot. And what a slight
plot for a Doctor Who Christmas Special it is.

Two Doctors - the First and the Twelfth (I know, Fourteenth, but the BBC
are doing the counting and it’s their version that the public recognises)
find themselves in the same situation - dying, in the Antarctic, in
December 1986. Neither of them wants to regenerate - the First because he’s
never done it before, is set in his ways and apparently frightened to
change, and the Twelfth because he’s jaded and tired, and all his recent
companions have died or almost died on his watch - Bill, Amy, Rory, Donna
(also Clara, but he doesn’t quite remember Clara) - and he just doesn’t
want to carry on.

They meet, and in this moment a potential paradox becomes immanent - if the
First Doctor doesn’t regenerate, what will have changed in the Universe
across all time and space? And what becomes of the Twelfth? The paradox
creates a speed bump in the timeline, interfering with Testimony as it is
in process of returning a WWI British Army captain to his doom - destined
to be shot in a pothole in Ypres in December 1914. The Captain also finds
himself in the Antarctic snows, because as it happens Testimony is
then-and-there too, this time ready to press record on one of the most
fascinating lives of all - that of the Twelfth Doctor. The First Doctor
gets a brief glimpse of his possible future (albeit, as Doc 12 so adroitly
points out, without any of the jokes) and is appalled at what he might
become.

As the Doctors and the Captain seek refuge in the Twelfth’s version of the
TARDIS, Testimony works on fixing the mistake - it offers the Doctor a
chance to reunite with Bill (who appears out of nowhere) in exchange for
completing the Captain’s destiny. The Captain, resigned to a death he
doesn’t want to face, agrees but the Doctor and Bill do not.

Despite not trusting that Bill is real, the Doctors and the Captain escape
with her. Testimony still has the TARDIS but luckily the Doctors have a
spare - the First Doctor’s version of the machine. In a somewhat bizarre
side trip they go to visit Rusty (the “Good Dalek” created by the Doctor in
“Into the Dalek”) to discover that Testimony is nothing but a big library,
in the course of which they come to learn that “Bill” is an avatar of
Testimony.

Bill goes to great lengths to convince Doc 12 that this doesn’t matter -
but in fact she already proved that earlier when she rebelled against
Testimony’s plan and encouraged the original escape. Is she real, or is she
Memorex?

So, Doc 12 cuts a deal with Testimony and the Doctors are set free, and
will return the Captain to his battlefield to die. After all, by refusing
to regenerate they’ve pretty much caused this situation in the first place.

It’s been a good tale overall so far - quiet, not universe threatening -
just an entertaining journey with two bantering incarnations of the Doctor.

But here’s where it gets brilliant. The 12 Doctor has somehow “tweaked” the
moment of the foxhole. Just a little bit. Just enough. Because it
transpires that the day of the Captain’s abduction was Christmas Day 1914 -
the day that the soldiers on both sides decided to sing carols, to lay down
their arms, to emerge from the trenches, embrace their enemies and play
football. And so the Captain (who, we learn, is the grandfather of
Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, the Doctor’s most enduring friend across at
least 7 incarnations) and his opposite number - survive.

The good part here is that the Doctor hasn’t interferes with history to
create the Truce. He hasn’t manipulated that at all - he’s just taking
advantage of an event he has foreknowledge of.

The 1st Doctor comes to realise the kind of difference he will make to his
future, and decides to regenerate after all (presumably Doc 12 has
programmed the destination for him. 1 Doc hasn’t got a clue how to steer a
TARDIS). And Doc 12 decides that it’s worth going around one more time.

The episode then moves into its final farewells for the 12th Doctor as he
is briefly reunited with the memories of Clara and Nardole (and Testimony
gives him the gift of what it is uniquely most capable of giving - memory -
restoring his recollections of Clara) and gives one of those trademark 12
Doc soliloquies before letting go and becoming the 13th Doctor.

Who, because her predecessor was an idiot who unleashed the full force of
his pent-up regeneration energy inside a moving TARDIS, promptly manages to
destroy the console room and as the episode ends we see her flung into
space, plummeting to certain doom as a brief meteor in the skies of Earth.

Yeah. Like that’s going to happen.

***********************************************************************

There was much to admire about this episode but also much to be critical
of. It highlighted Moffat’s strengths but also his weaknesses.

The first opening sequence, segueing from surviving footage of “The Tenth
Planet” into a new scene that provides the set up for this episode, was
wonderful and even if the new “Ben” and “Polly” were terrible, at least
their time was brief.

David Bradley’s evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell’s Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat’s scripting - dear oh dear. Hartnell was
gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not casually sexist
in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes, Polly did put the
kettle on a lot (see “The Moonbase” for the most egregious examples of her
acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was because her character was
that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major contribution WAS to make the
coffee, not because the Doctor expected her to.

Using Testimony as a way to bring back Bill was clever in its way (and
Pearl Mackie really did deserve a longer stint as a companion, her
character was a perfect foil for Capaldi’s finally sympathetic Doctor) but
it was also unnecessary. And will induce some confusion in small children
and idiots as they wonder just how many times Moffat can bring someone back
from the dead, and where this all fits in.

I’d much rather have seen Carol Ann Ford just appear for a minute to say to
both of them “You never did come back, did you, Grandfather? But I forgive
you. I lived a good life, as you can see” perhaps showing her surrounded by
small children.

The Christmas Truce has been used a lot over the years - but never by
Doctor Who, and it was used here to great effect to provide the apparently
obligatory Christmas reference, and not in the overly schmaltzy way that’s
been done at times before.

But - paradox upon paradox. Moffat’s never been one to think through the
timey-wimey stuff completely and here was no exception. For example - if
the Captain doesn’t die, then Testimony shouldn’t have taken him. If the
Twelfth Doctor regenerates, then Testimony shouldn’t have come for HIM
(unless it comes every time to update its backup - in which case, it should
also have the details on all FUTURE Doctors too. Scary.)

We all know Peter Capaldi can deliver a speech - but Bradley’s simple “I’m
ready now” was much more affecting than the rather overblown and slightly
nonsensical address the 12th Doctor was made to give - to the TARDIS? To
his future self? It went on too long, and it was a shame his last words
were so unmemorable. “Doctor, I let you go”? Feh.

The whole episode was littered with clever touches and references. It was
nice to be shown explicitly how the TARDIS model has changed over the
years. And the ring falling off Whittaker’s finger - as another one did off
Hartnell’s so long ago - was one last lovely parallel.

The brief glimpse we got of the new Doctor was fine. Nothing to say yet,
really. But I do hope Chris Chibnall wrote that last scene - it would be
very rude if Moffat has left him with a “Now get out of that!” moment as a
parting shot.

In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than several of
the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a masterpiece but was
fatally flawed in places - worst, I think, was the jarring sexism, but
Capaldi’s interminable farewell monologue case a close second.

Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
Wouter Valentijn
2017-12-26 13:08:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Last Doctor
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
Post by The Last Doctor
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don’t seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you’re merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
<snip>
Post by The Last Doctor
As it happens we’ve seen this before - this is Missy’s Nethersphere Mark
II, the Nethersphere done right and without evil intent. But in this case,
it’s just a McGuffin. The tool that enables the plot. And what a slight
plot for a Doctor Who Christmas Special it is.
Never liked that Nethersphere thing. This story was a vindication I
think. Indeed done right. Much more kind.
Post by The Last Doctor
Two Doctors - the First and the Twelfth (I know, Fourteenth, but the BBC
are doing the counting and it’s their version that the public recognises)
Well, they're counting faces of versions that could call themselves The
Doctor proper, therefor eliminating the War Doctor and the 'vain' '10'
that incarnated into the same face in the numbers. :-)

<snip>
Post by The Last Doctor
Bill goes to great lengths to convince Doc 12 that this doesn’t matter -
but in fact she already proved that earlier when she rebelled against
Testimony’s plan and encouraged the original escape. Is she real, or is she
Memorex?
And WHEN was she recorded? For all we know she might have had a long
life with Heather. And maybe what she was turned into by Heather and The
Testimony itself were already linked somehow...
Post by The Last Doctor
So, Doc 12 cuts a deal with Testimony and the Doctors are set free, and
will return the Captain to his battlefield to die. After all, by refusing
to regenerate they’ve pretty much caused this situation in the first place.
It’s been a good tale overall so far - quiet, not universe threatening -
just an entertaining journey with two bantering incarnations of the Doctor.
But here’s where it gets brilliant. The 12 Doctor has somehow “tweaked” the
moment of the foxhole. Just a little bit. Just enough. Because it
transpires that the day of the Captain’s abduction was Christmas Day 1914 -
the day that the soldiers on both sides decided to sing carols, to lay down
their arms, to emerge from the trenches, embrace their enemies and play
football. And so the Captain (who, we learn, is the grandfather of
Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, the Doctor’s most enduring friend across at
least 7 incarnations) and his opposite number - survive.
Brill moment! Very touching.
Post by The Last Doctor
The good part here is that the Doctor hasn’t interferes with history to
create the Truce. He hasn’t manipulated that at all - he’s just taking
advantage of an event he has foreknowledge of.
The 1st Doctor comes to realise the kind of difference he will make to his
future, and decides to regenerate after all (presumably Doc 12 has
programmed the destination for him. 1 Doc hasn’t got a clue how to steer a
TARDIS). And Doc 12 decides that it’s worth going around one more time.
The episode then moves into its final farewells for the 12th Doctor as he
is briefly reunited with the memories of Clara and Nardole (and Testimony
gives him the gift of what it is uniquely most capable of giving - memory -
restoring his recollections of Clara) and gives one of those trademark 12
Doc soliloquies before letting go and becoming the 13th Doctor.
One of the best goodbyes.
Post by The Last Doctor
Who, because her predecessor was an idiot who unleashed the full force of
his pent-up regeneration energy inside a moving TARDIS, promptly manages to
destroy the console room and as the episode ends we see her flung into
space, plummeting to certain doom as a brief meteor in the skies of Earth.
Yeah. Like that’s going to happen.
Maybe the TARDIS will dive after her. :-)
Nah, we'll see in the Fall.
Post by The Last Doctor
***********************************************************************
There was much to admire about this episode but also much to be critical
of. It highlighted Moffat’s strengths but also his weaknesses.
The first opening sequence, segueing from surviving footage of “The Tenth
Planet” into a new scene that provides the set up for this episode, was
wonderful and even if the new “Ben” and “Polly” were terrible, at least
their time was brief.
David Bradley’s evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell’s Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat’s scripting - dear oh dear. Hartnell was
gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not casually sexist
in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes, Polly did put the
kettle on a lot (see “The Moonbase” for the most egregious examples of her
acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was because her character was
that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major contribution WAS to make the
coffee, not because the Doctor expected her to.
Here we started with Doctor Who with Tom Baker. We never got to see the
first Doctors, so, I have little knowledge of those first three.
Post by The Last Doctor
Using Testimony as a way to bring back Bill was clever in its way (and
Pearl Mackie really did deserve a longer stint as a companion, her
character was a perfect foil for Capaldi’s finally sympathetic Doctor) but
it was also unnecessary. And will induce some confusion in small children
and idiots as they wonder just how many times Moffat can bring someone back
from the dead, and where this all fits in.
Her Bill Potts was just great!
Post by The Last Doctor
I’d much rather have seen Carol Ann Ford just appear for a minute to say to
both of them “You never did come back, did you, Grandfather? But I forgive
you. I lived a good life, as you can see” perhaps showing her surrounded by
small children.
The Christmas Truce has been used a lot over the years - but never by
Doctor Who, and it was used here to great effect to provide the apparently
obligatory Christmas reference, and not in the overly schmaltzy way that’s
been done at times before.
But - paradox upon paradox. Moffat’s never been one to think through the
timey-wimey stuff completely and here was no exception. For example - if
the Captain doesn’t die, then Testimony shouldn’t have taken him. If the
Twelfth Doctor regenerates, then Testimony shouldn’t have come for HIM
(unless it comes every time to update its backup - in which case, it should
also have the details on all FUTURE Doctors too. Scary.)
I think Testimony was aware of the paradox, but decided to let it slide.

<snip>
Post by The Last Doctor
In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than several of
the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a masterpiece but was
fatally flawed in places - worst, I think, was the jarring sexism, but
Capaldi’s interminable farewell monologue case a close second.
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)

I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html

liam=mail
The Doctor
2017-12-26 15:08:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don’t seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you’re merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
<snip>
As it happens we’ve seen this before - this is Missy’s Nethersphere Mark
II, the Nethersphere done right and without evil intent. But in this case,
it’s just a McGuffin. The tool that enables the plot. And what a slight
plot for a Doctor Who Christmas Special it is.
Never liked that Nethersphere thing. This story was a vindication I
think. Indeed done right. Much more kind.
Two Doctors - the First and the Twelfth (I know, Fourteenth, but the BBC
are doing the counting and it’s their version that the public recognises)
Well, they're counting faces of versions that could call themselves The
Doctor proper, therefor eliminating the War Doctor and the 'vain' '10'
that incarnated into the same face in the numbers. :-)
<snip>
Bill goes to great lengths to convince Doc 12 that this doesn’t matter -
but in fact she already proved that earlier when she rebelled against
Testimony’s plan and encouraged the original escape. Is she real, or is she
Memorex?
And WHEN was she recorded? For all we know she might have had a long
life with Heather. And maybe what she was turned into by Heather and The
Testimony itself were already linked somehow...
So, Doc 12 cuts a deal with Testimony and the Doctors are set free, and
will return the Captain to his battlefield to die. After all, by refusing
to regenerate they’ve pretty much caused this situation in the first place.
It’s been a good tale overall so far - quiet, not universe threatening -
just an entertaining journey with two bantering incarnations of the Doctor.
But here’s where it gets brilliant. The 12 Doctor has somehow
“tweaked” the
moment of the foxhole. Just a little bit. Just enough. Because it
transpires that the day of the Captain’s abduction was Christmas Day 1914 -
the day that the soldiers on both sides decided to sing carols, to lay down
their arms, to emerge from the trenches, embrace their enemies and play
football. And so the Captain (who, we learn, is the grandfather of
Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, the Doctor’s most enduring friend across at
least 7 incarnations) and his opposite number - survive.
Brill moment! Very touching.
The good part here is that the Doctor hasn’t interferes with history to
create the Truce. He hasn’t manipulated that at all - he’s just taking
advantage of an event he has foreknowledge of.
The 1st Doctor comes to realise the kind of difference he will make to his
future, and decides to regenerate after all (presumably Doc 12 has
programmed the destination for him. 1 Doc hasn’t got a clue how to steer a
TARDIS). And Doc 12 decides that it’s worth going around one more time.
The episode then moves into its final farewells for the 12th Doctor as he
is briefly reunited with the memories of Clara and Nardole (and Testimony
gives him the gift of what it is uniquely most capable of giving - memory -
restoring his recollections of Clara) and gives one of those trademark 12
Doc soliloquies before letting go and becoming the 13th Doctor.
One of the best goodbyes.
Who, because her predecessor was an idiot who unleashed the full force of
his pent-up regeneration energy inside a moving TARDIS, promptly manages to
destroy the console room and as the episode ends we see her flung into
space, plummeting to certain doom as a brief meteor in the skies of Earth.
Yeah. Like that’s going to happen.
Maybe the TARDIS will dive after her. :-)
Nah, we'll see in the Fall.
***********************************************************************
There was much to admire about this episode but also much to be critical
of. It highlighted Moffat’s strengths but also his weaknesses.
The first opening sequence, segueing from surviving footage of “The Tenth
Planet” into a new scene that provides the set up for this episode, was
wonderful and even if the new “Ben” and “Polly” were terrible,
at least
their time was brief.
David Bradley’s evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell’s Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat’s scripting - dear oh dear. Hartnell was
gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not casually sexist
in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes, Polly did put the
kettle on a lot (see “The Moonbase” for the most egregious examples of her
acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was because her character was
that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major contribution WAS to make the
coffee, not because the Doctor expected her to.
Here we started with Doctor Who with Tom Baker. We never got to see the
first Doctors, so, I have little knowledge of those first three.
Using Testimony as a way to bring back Bill was clever in its way (and
Pearl Mackie really did deserve a longer stint as a companion, her
character was a perfect foil for Capaldi’s finally sympathetic Doctor) but
it was also unnecessary. And will induce some confusion in small children
and idiots as they wonder just how many times Moffat can bring someone back
from the dead, and where this all fits in.
Her Bill Potts was just great!
I’d much rather have seen Carol Ann Ford just appear for a minute to say to
both of them “You never did come back, did you, Grandfather? But I forgive
you. I lived a good life, as you can see” perhaps showing her surrounded by
small children.
The Christmas Truce has been used a lot over the years - but never by
Doctor Who, and it was used here to great effect to provide the apparently
obligatory Christmas reference, and not in the overly schmaltzy way that’s
been done at times before.
But - paradox upon paradox. Moffat’s never been one to think through the
timey-wimey stuff completely and here was no exception. For example - if
the Captain doesn’t die, then Testimony shouldn’t have taken him. If the
Twelfth Doctor regenerates, then Testimony shouldn’t have come for HIM
(unless it comes every time to update its backup - in which case, it should
also have the details on all FUTURE Doctors too. Scary.)
I think Testimony was aware of the paradox, but decided to let it slide.
<snip>
In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than several of
the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a masterpiece but was
fatally flawed in places - worst, I think, was the jarring sexism, but
Capaldi’s interminable farewell monologue case a close second.
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net
http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html
liam=mail
You love sick humour and plotless stories?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Happy Christmas 2017 and Merry New Year 2018
Wouter Valentijn
2017-12-26 15:52:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
<snip>
Post by The Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
You love sick humour and plotless stories?
I don't agree with that assessment.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html

liam=mail
The Doctor
2017-12-27 01:19:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by The Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
<snip>
Post by The Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
You love sick humour and plotless stories?
I don't agree with that assessment.
Plot held be strings.

Dead are memores in 5 000 000 012 AD

Attack on William Hartnell.

I really did dismise this mess.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Happy Christmas 2017 and Merry New Year 2018
The Last Doctor
2017-12-26 17:00:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by The Last Doctor
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
Post by The Last Doctor
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
It’s a quote from Hamlet, actually, and less appropriate for Star Trek VI
than for Doctor Who.

“But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?”

In other words, the fear of what comes after death can make us carry on
with the burdens of the life we know rather than taking a risk on the
unknown.

And what were Bradley, and Capaldi, doing, if not clinging on to the
present rather than risking what comes next?
Post by Wouter Valentijn
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
I suspect that younger viewers, and those who have not watched any of the
Hartnell era, will rate it more highly than us old Whovians. You won’t find
those 60s attitudes - which are RIGHT for the 60s, just not for Hartnell’s
Doctor - incongruous.
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
Wouter Valentijn
2017-12-26 17:36:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by The Last Doctor
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
Post by The Last Doctor
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
It’s a quote from Hamlet, actually, and less appropriate for Star Trek VI
than for Doctor Who.
“But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?”
In other words, the fear of what comes after death can make us carry on
with the burdens of the life we know rather than taking a risk on the
unknown.
The Star Trek one stems from the same source of course.
Post by The Last Doctor
And what were Bradley, and Capaldi, doing, if not clinging on to the
present rather than risking what comes next?
Their Doctors certainly did.
Post by The Last Doctor
Post by Wouter Valentijn
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
I suspect that younger viewers, and those who have not watched any of the
Hartnell era, will rate it more highly than us old Whovians. You won’t find
those 60s attitudes - which are RIGHT for the 60s, just not for Hartnell’s
Doctor - incongruous.
Started with Who in the late '70's. A Dutch public broadcaster (TROS)
started with 'Robot' and back then we didn't have the BBC (we have that
since about 1989). So yeah, I missed out on the first Three Doctors.

They probably gave that twist to One to make a contrast with Thirteen.

In-Universe one might say that was because One was fighting
regeneration. Twelve remarked something about One's appearance.
Can't remember the exact words, but it probably was the in-universe
reason for Bradley's One being "somewhat different" from Hartnell's One.
Maybe the discrepancy went beyond the physical.
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html

liam=mail
The Doctor
2017-12-27 01:43:35 UTC
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Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Absolutely!
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
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Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
It’s a quote from Hamlet, actually, and less appropriate for Star Trek VI
than for Doctor Who.
“But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?”
In other words, the fear of what comes after death can make us carry on
with the burdens of the life we know rather than taking a risk on the
unknown.
And what were Bradley, and Capaldi, doing, if not clinging on to the
present rather than risking what comes next?
Post by Wouter Valentijn
I give it a 10. Loved every minute of it.
I suspect that younger viewers, and those who have not watched any of the
Hartnell era, will rate it more highly than us old Whovians. You won’t find
those 60s attitudes - which are RIGHT for the 60s, just not for Hartnell’s
Doctor - incongruous.
Well on IMDB it went from above 9 to below 9 in less than 12 hours.

8.7/10 1135 votes

Also I heard the audience in the UK was 5.66 million
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Happy Christmas 2017 and Merry New Year 2018
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-12-26 16:24:06 UTC
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Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
Shakespeare in the original Klingon?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Wouter Valentijn
2017-12-26 18:26:14 UTC
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Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Wouter Valentijn
“Oh, brilliant.”
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Star Trek VI reference? ;-)
Shakespeare in the original Klingon?
Indeed. Glad General Chang told us that. :-)
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html

liam=mail
solar penguin
2017-12-26 19:02:06 UTC
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Post by Wouter Valentijn
And WHEN was she recorded? For all we know she might have had a long
life with Heather.
She didn't look much older in the recording. Either she doesn't age
while she's with Heather, or she dies very early in their travels together.
The Last Doctor
2017-12-26 19:51:54 UTC
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Post by solar penguin
Post by Wouter Valentijn
And WHEN was she recorded? For all we know she might have had a long
life with Heather.
She didn't look much older in the recording. Either she doesn't age
while she's with Heather, or she dies very early in their travels together.
Or, she chooses the appearance she shows to the Doctor, picking a moment
along her remembered timeline that would be instantly recognisable to him.
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
Tim Bruening
2017-12-26 20:58:29 UTC
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Post by The Last Doctor
Post by solar penguin
Post by Wouter Valentijn
And WHEN was she recorded? For all we know she might have had a long
life with Heather.
She didn't look much older in the recording. Either she doesn't age
while she's with Heather, or she dies very early in their travels together.
Or, she chooses the appearance she shows to the Doctor, picking a moment
along her remembered timeline that would be instantly recognisable to him.
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
What can kill a puddle being anyway? Heather withstood Dalek weapons fire. I therefore assumed that Bill would be functionally immortal.

I think that Bill didn't remember much of Heather, so may have been harvested early on, a rather poor return for Heather's investment if Bill is dead!
The Doctor
2017-12-26 15:05:59 UTC
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“Oh, brilliant.”
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
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(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don’t seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you’re merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as a
repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The project,
Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced technology - some
sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber, enough memory storage to make
Google weep with envy, and really neat hard-light holograms that can appear
to be transparent, glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take
on the appearance of anyone they know about.
Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not just humans.
Because what Testimony does is to go back in time to moments before a
person’s death, extract them from the interstices between two passing
instants, bring them into the future, record a copy of their entire life,
memories and personality (their soul?) - and then reinsert them back into
time, with no recall of having been abducted, just in time to die.
Which is a neat trick if you can do it.
As it happens we’ve seen this before - this is Missy’s Nethersphere Mark
II, the Nethersphere done right and without evil intent. But in this case,
it’s just a McGuffin. The tool that enables the plot. And what a slight
plot for a Doctor Who Christmas Special it is.
Two Doctors - the First and the Twelfth (I know, Fourteenth, but the BBC
are doing the counting and it’s their version that the public recognises)
find themselves in the same situation - dying, in the Antarctic, in
December 1986. Neither of them wants to regenerate - the First because he’s
never done it before, is set in his ways and apparently frightened to
change, and the Twelfth because he’s jaded and tired, and all his recent
companions have died or almost died on his watch - Bill, Amy, Rory, Donna
(also Clara, but he doesn’t quite remember Clara) - and he just doesn’t
want to carry on.
They meet, and in this moment a potential paradox becomes immanent - if the
First Doctor doesn’t regenerate, what will have changed in the Universe
across all time and space? And what becomes of the Twelfth? The paradox
creates a speed bump in the timeline, interfering with Testimony as it is
in process of returning a WWI British Army captain to his doom - destined
to be shot in a pothole in Ypres in December 1914. The Captain also finds
himself in the Antarctic snows, because as it happens Testimony is
then-and-there too, this time ready to press record on one of the most
fascinating lives of all - that of the Twelfth Doctor. The First Doctor
gets a brief glimpse of his possible future (albeit, as Doc 12 so adroitly
points out, without any of the jokes) and is appalled at what he might
become.
As the Doctors and the Captain seek refuge in the Twelfth’s version of the
TARDIS, Testimony works on fixing the mistake - it offers the Doctor a
chance to reunite with Bill (who appears out of nowhere) in exchange for
completing the Captain’s destiny. The Captain, resigned to a death he
doesn’t want to face, agrees but the Doctor and Bill do not.
Despite not trusting that Bill is real, the Doctors and the Captain escape
with her. Testimony still has the TARDIS but luckily the Doctors have a
spare - the First Doctor’s version of the machine. In a somewhat bizarre
side trip they go to visit Rusty (the “Good Dalek” created by the Doctor in
“Into the Dalek”) to discover that Testimony is nothing but a big library,
in the course of which they come to learn that “Bill” is an avatar of
Testimony.
Bill goes to great lengths to convince Doc 12 that this doesn’t matter -
but in fact she already proved that earlier when she rebelled against
Testimony’s plan and encouraged the original escape. Is she real, or is she
Memorex?
So, Doc 12 cuts a deal with Testimony and the Doctors are set free, and
will return the Captain to his battlefield to die. After all, by refusing
to regenerate they’ve pretty much caused this situation in the first place.
It’s been a good tale overall so far - quiet, not universe threatening -
just an entertaining journey with two bantering incarnations of the Doctor.
But here’s where it gets brilliant. The 12 Doctor has somehow
“tweaked” the
moment of the foxhole. Just a little bit. Just enough. Because it
transpires that the day of the Captain’s abduction was Christmas Day 1914 -
the day that the soldiers on both sides decided to sing carols, to lay down
their arms, to emerge from the trenches, embrace their enemies and play
football. And so the Captain (who, we learn, is the grandfather of
Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, the Doctor’s most enduring friend across at
least 7 incarnations) and his opposite number - survive.
The good part here is that the Doctor hasn’t interferes with history to
create the Truce. He hasn’t manipulated that at all - he’s just taking
advantage of an event he has foreknowledge of.
The 1st Doctor comes to realise the kind of difference he will make to his
future, and decides to regenerate after all (presumably Doc 12 has
programmed the destination for him. 1 Doc hasn’t got a clue how to steer a
TARDIS). And Doc 12 decides that it’s worth going around one more time.
The episode then moves into its final farewells for the 12th Doctor as he
is briefly reunited with the memories of Clara and Nardole (and Testimony
gives him the gift of what it is uniquely most capable of giving - memory -
restoring his recollections of Clara) and gives one of those trademark 12
Doc soliloquies before letting go and becoming the 13th Doctor.
Who, because her predecessor was an idiot who unleashed the full force of
his pent-up regeneration energy inside a moving TARDIS, promptly manages to
destroy the console room and as the episode ends we see her flung into
space, plummeting to certain doom as a brief meteor in the skies of Earth.
Yeah. Like that’s going to happen.
***********************************************************************
There was much to admire about this episode but also much to be critical
of. It highlighted Moffat’s strengths but also his weaknesses.
The first opening sequence, segueing from surviving footage of “The Tenth
Planet” into a new scene that provides the set up for this episode, was
wonderful and even if the new “Ben” and “Polly” were terrible, at least
their time was brief.
David Bradley’s evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell’s Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat’s scripting - dear oh dear. Hartnell was
gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not casually sexist
in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes, Polly did put the
kettle on a lot (see “The Moonbase” for the most egregious examples of her
acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was because her character was
that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major contribution WAS to make the
coffee, not because the Doctor expected her to.
Using Testimony as a way to bring back Bill was clever in its way (and
Pearl Mackie really did deserve a longer stint as a companion, her
character was a perfect foil for Capaldi’s finally sympathetic Doctor) but
it was also unnecessary. And will induce some confusion in small children
and idiots as they wonder just how many times Moffat can bring someone back
from the dead, and where this all fits in.
I’d much rather have seen Carol Ann Ford just appear for a minute to say to
both of them “You never did come back, did you, Grandfather? But I forgive
you. I lived a good life, as you can see” perhaps showing her surrounded by
small children.
The Christmas Truce has been used a lot over the years - but never by
Doctor Who, and it was used here to great effect to provide the apparently
obligatory Christmas reference, and not in the overly schmaltzy way that’s
been done at times before.
But - paradox upon paradox. Moffat’s never been one to think through the
timey-wimey stuff completely and here was no exception. For example - if
the Captain doesn’t die, then Testimony shouldn’t have taken him. If the
Twelfth Doctor regenerates, then Testimony shouldn’t have come for HIM
(unless it comes every time to update its backup - in which case, it should
also have the details on all FUTURE Doctors too. Scary.)
We all know Peter Capaldi can deliver a speech - but Bradley’s simple “I’m
ready now” was much more affecting than the rather overblown and slightly
nonsensical address the 12th Doctor was made to give - to the TARDIS? To
his future self? It went on too long, and it was a shame his last words
were so unmemorable. “Doctor, I let you go”? Feh.
The whole episode was littered with clever touches and references. It was
nice to be shown explicitly how the TARDIS model has changed over the
years. And the ring falling off Whittaker’s finger - as another one did off
Hartnell’s so long ago - was one last lovely parallel.
The brief glimpse we got of the new Doctor was fine. Nothing to say yet,
really. But I do hope Chris Chibnall wrote that last scene - it would be
very rude if Moffat has left him with a “Now get out of that!” moment as a
parting shot.
In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than several of
the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a masterpiece but was
fatally flawed in places - worst, I think, was the jarring sexism, but
Capaldi’s interminable farewell monologue case a close second.
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.
You really are a regressive dressed up as a progressive.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Happy Christmas 2017 and Merry New Year 2018
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-12-26 16:20:37 UTC
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Post by The Last Doctor
In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than
several of the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a
masterpiece but was fatally flawed in places - worst, I think,
was the jarring sexism,
I've only seen a handful of Hartnell's episodes, and that was jarring
for me, too. It's very fashionable today to dismiss all men from the
past as child-like misogynists.

That is, perhaps, a bit of forewhadowing for the social commentary
implicit in making the next Doctor female. I hope they don't let it
get out of hand.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-12-26 17:26:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Oh, brilliant."
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don't seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you're merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as a
repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The project,
Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced technology - some
sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber, enough memory storage to make
Google weep with envy, and really neat hard-light holograms that can appear
to be transparent, glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take
on the appearance of anyone they know about.
Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not just humans.
I love how other races developed time travel, unknown to Gallifreyans.
How can they not learn of it?

The bit that's missing: The computer interface. Who uses the database?
How do they avoid minor crimes, not to mention major attrocities, from
all that knowledge? How did they prevent others from using time travel?

Since when did humans ever have time travel? That's a huge change and
conflicts with plenty of post apocolyptic stories.
Because what Testimony does is to go back in time to moments before a
person's death, extract them from the interstices between two passing
instants, bring them into the future, record a copy of their entire life,
memories and personality (their soul?) - and then reinsert them back into
time, with no recall of having been abducted, just in time to die.
Which is a neat trick if you can do it.
In that future, archivists and curators have taken over the human race
and are plundering its resources to pay for this project.
As it happens we've seen this before - this is Missy's Nethersphere Mark
II, the Nethersphere done right and without evil intent. But in this case,
it's just a McGuffin. The tool that enables the plot. And what a slight
plot for a Doctor Who Christmas Special it is.
It's not mean-spirited at all, unlike the Nethersphere. Second thoughts,
perhaps?
Two Doctors - the First and the Twelfth (I know, Fourteenth, but the BBC
are doing the counting and it's their version that the public recognises)
If it's the 3rd actor to play the First, sixteenth?
find themselves in the same situation - dying, in the Antarctic, in
December 1986. Neither of them wants to regenerate - the First because he's
never done it before, is set in his ways and apparently frightened to
change,
Shouldn't this have tied in with some tragedy in his final episode? I
don't think I ever saw that. Perhaps they could have tied it in with how
deteriorated Harnell had become when he was forced to quit acting.

Here's a first: A multiple Doctor episode in which the previous
incarnation hasn't been pulled out of his timeline at an unknown point.
and the Twelfth because he's jaded and tired, and all his recent
companions have died or almost died on his watch - Bill, Amy, Rory, Donna
(also Clara, but he doesn't quite remember Clara) - and he just doesn't
want to carry on.
Bill's death had to be the most depressing thing I'd ever seen, turning
her into a Cyberman, considering we'd already seen that with Souffle
Girl having already been turned into a Dalek but struggling to retain
her humanity.

I liked Bill... a lot. The character had so much against her and some
of New Who's worst writing to contend with and saddled with too many
characteristices due to A Note From Network Programming Executives
demanding all sorts of checkboxes be checked. Still, she's a favorite
companion because, despite the writing, it was an incredibly strong
performance. Those are performances that should receive acting awards,
as the actor succeeded despite utter failure of everyone else.

Bill simply didn't deserve such a rotten end. We Hit You Over The Head
With DRAMA!!!!!!
They meet, and in this moment a potential paradox becomes immanent - if the
First Doctor doesn't regenerate, what will have changed in the Universe
across all time and space? And what becomes of the Twelfth? The paradox
creates a speed bump in the timeline, interfering with Testimony as it is
in process of returning a WWI British Army captain to his doom - destined
to be shot in a pothole in Ypres in December 1914. The Captain also finds
himself in the Antarctic snows, because as it happens Testimony is
then-and-there too, this time ready to press record on one of the most
fascinating lives of all - that of the Twelfth Doctor. The First Doctor
gets a brief glimpse of his possible future (albeit, as Doc 12 so adroitly
points out, without any of the jokes) and is appalled at what he might
become.
Funny how he didn't recall meeting Peter Davison, if he wanted Much Younger.

I didn't care for the Captain at all. We meet him when he's already
resigned to his fate. That doesn't work. We don't feel for the guy.
There's not tragic end that the viewer will care about. He's not capable
of expressing any anger. Huh? It's just resignation, nothing more.

At least he said the line properly upon seeing the interior.
As the Doctors and the Captain seek refuge in the Twelfth's version of the
TARDIS, Testimony works on fixing the mistake - it offers the Doctor a
chance to reunite with Bill (who appears out of nowhere) in exchange for
completing the Captain's destiny. The Captain, resigned to a death he
doesn't want to face, agrees but the Doctor and Bill do not.
Gee. How does that not fool The Doctor? I can't imagine. It's sort of a
Philip K. Dick view of life as a collection of memories, but they really
don't do much with it.
Despite not trusting that Bill is real, the Doctors and the Captain escape
with her. Testimony still has the TARDIS but luckily the Doctors have a
spare - the First Doctor's version of the machine. In a somewhat bizarre
side trip they go to visit Rusty (the "Good Dalek" created by the Doctor in
"Into the Dalek") to discover that Testimony is nothing but a big library,
in the course of which they come to learn that "Bill" is an avatar of
Testimony.
Bill goes to great lengths to convince Doc 12 that this doesn't matter -
but in fact she already proved that earlier when she rebelled against
Testimony's plan and encouraged the original escape. Is she real, or is she
Memorex?
Or the Twelth Doctor was being manipulated because PLOT.
So, Doc 12 cuts a deal with Testimony and the Doctors are set free, and
will return the Captain to his battlefield to die. After all, by refusing
to regenerate they've pretty much caused this situation in the first place.
It's been a good tale overall so far - quiet, not universe threatening -
just an entertaining journey with two bantering incarnations of the Doctor.
I wanted more--any--cantakerousness from the First Doctor. Instead we
got a misogynist. Where the hell did that come from? Didn't Moffat know
that his counterpart, Verity Lambert, was female, and was capable of
restraining any misogynistic impulses of the scriptwriters?
But here's where it gets brilliant. The 12 Doctor has somehow "tweaked"
the moment of the foxhole. Just a little bit. Just enough. Because it
transpires that the day of the Captain's abduction was Christmas Day 1914
- the day that the soldiers on both sides decided to sing carols, to lay
down their arms, to emerge from the trenches, embrace their enemies and
play football. And so the Captain (who, we learn, is the grandfather of
Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, the Doctor's most enduring friend across
at least 7 incarnations) and his opposite number - survive.
What other people suggested, that this would have worked a lot better
with the Third Doctor, is right. Anyway, how did The Doctor's
interference fail to set off Testimony's alarms that the timeline was
altered?

Why wouldn't he have been his father?
The good part here is that the Doctor hasn't interferes with history to
create the Truce. He hasn't manipulated that at all - he's just taking
advantage of an event he has foreknowledge of.
If you're gonna interfere with history, then take advantage of the truce
to get all parties to the negotiating tables. You've got a damn time
machine. Just kidnap all those diplomats and end that horrid war.
The 1st Doctor comes to realise the kind of difference he will make to his
future, and decides to regenerate after all (presumably Doc 12 has
programmed the destination for him. 1 Doc hasn't got a clue how to steer a
TARDIS). And Doc 12 decides that it's worth going around one more time.
Eh. I liked Bill's speech to him better than the Lethbridge-Stewart
coincidence and any possible lesson learned.
The episode then moves into its final farewells for the 12th Doctor as he
is briefly reunited with the memories of Clara and Nardole (and Testimony
gives him the gift of what it is uniquely most capable of giving - memory -
restoring his recollections of Clara) and gives one of those trademark 12
Doc soliloquies before letting go and becoming the 13th Doctor.
Oh, gawd, that was the single worst moment. The Twelth Doctor's memories
of his Impossibly Cute companion were erased from his brain. Why?
Because if he remembered, there'd be universe-ending consequences, which
I personally put out of mind because STOOPID. He got his memory
restored, and there were no consequences. What the fuck?
Who, because her predecessor was an idiot who unleashed the full force of
his pent-up regeneration energy inside a moving TARDIS, promptly manages to
destroy the console room and as the episode ends we see her flung into
space, plummeting to certain doom as a brief meteor in the skies of Earth.
Yeah. Like that's going to happen.
Why did they have to repeat the David Tenant cataclysmic regeneration
sequence? I liked the fades better.
***********************************************************************
There was much to admire about this episode but also much to be critical
of. It highlighted Moffat's strengths but also his weaknesses.
The first opening sequence, segueing from surviving footage of "The Tenth
Planet" into a new scene that provides the set up for this episode, was
wonderful and even if the new "Ben" and "Polly" were terrible, at least
their time was brief.
I'll agree.
David Bradley's evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell's Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat's scripting - dear oh dear.
Not some of it. All of it.
Hartnell was gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not
casually sexist in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes,
Polly did put the kettle on a lot (see "The Moonbase" for the most
egregious examples of her acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was
because her character was that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major
contribution WAS to make the coffee, not because the Doctor expected
her to. . . .
I agree.
But - paradox upon paradox. Moffat's never been one to think through the
timey-wimey stuff completely and here was no exception. For example - if
the Captain doesn't die, then Testimony shouldn't have taken him.
Quite so.
If the Twelfth Doctor regenerates, then Testimony shouldn't have come
for HIM (unless it comes every time to update its backup - in which case,
it should also have the details on all FUTURE Doctors too. Scary.)
I must have missed something in dialog but I'm not rewatching because I
thought it was there due to the paradox and wouldn't have been there if
there hadn't been a paradox.
We all know Peter Capaldi can deliver a speech - but Bradley's simple "I'm
ready now" was much more affecting than the rather overblown and slightly
nonsensical address the 12th Doctor was made to give - to the TARDIS? To
his future self? It went on too long, and it was a shame his last words
were so unmemorable. "Doctor, I let you go"? Feh.
I think he left a message to his next incarnation but failed to include
Don't Wear a Fez.
The whole episode was littered with clever touches and references. It was
nice to be shown explicitly how the TARDIS model has changed over the
years. And the ring falling off Whittaker's finger - as another one did off
Hartnell's so long ago - was one last lovely parallel.
Yes, I liked that.
The brief glimpse we got of the new Doctor was fine. Nothing to say yet,
really. But I do hope Chris Chibnall wrote that last scene - it would be
very rude if Moffat has left him with a "Now get out of that!" moment as a
parting shot.
I assume things don't happen like that.
In summary - better than many Christmas episodes. Better than several of
the multi Doctor episodes. Had the potential to be a masterpiece but was
fatally flawed in places - worst, I think, was the jarring sexism, but
Capaldi's interminable farewell monologue case a close second.
Overall: 7/10, and the future is an undiscovered country.
Potential to be a masterpiece? There were just too many character
changes for that.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2017-12-26 16:30:56 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Adam H. Kerman
"Oh, brilliant."
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic
snow *
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*****************************************************************
*****
(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don't
seem to have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if
you're merely curious about how I felt about it all).
Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as
a repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The
project, Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced
technology - some sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber,
enough memory storage to make Google weep with envy, and really
neat hard-light holograms that can appear to be transparent,
glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take on the
appearance of anyone they know about.
Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not
just humans.
I love how other races developed time travel, unknown to
Gallifreyans. How can they not learn of it?
It's episodic television. Continuity is optional, and often
accidental.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Wouter Valentijn
2017-12-26 18:53:08 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Adam H. Kerman
"Oh, brilliant."
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
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(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don't seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you're merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as a
repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The project,
Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced technology - some
sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber, enough memory storage to make
Google weep with envy, and really neat hard-light holograms that can appear
to be transparent, glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take
on the appearance of anyone they know about.
Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not just humans.
I love how other races developed time travel, unknown to Gallifreyans.
How can they not learn of it?
The bit that's missing: The computer interface. Who uses the database?
How do they avoid minor crimes, not to mention major attrocities, from
all that knowledge? How did they prevent others from using time travel?
Me thinks they didn't. Time travel is all over the place, err, time.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Since when did humans ever have time travel? That's a huge change and
conflicts with plenty of post apocolyptic stories.
Early 22d Century it seems.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_travel

There was even an agency, the most famous agent being Jack of course.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Agency
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Because what Testimony does is to go back in time to moments before a
person's death, extract them from the interstices between two passing
instants, bring them into the future, record a copy of their entire life,
memories and personality (their soul?) - and then reinsert them back into
time, with no recall of having been abducted, just in time to die.
Which is a neat trick if you can do it.
In that future, archivists and curators have taken over the human race
and are plundering its resources to pay for this project.
Plundering? As an employee of an archive I take offense! :-)
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Bill's death had to be the most depressing thing I'd ever seen, turning
her into a Cyberman, considering we'd already seen that with Souffle
Girl having already been turned into a Dalek but struggling to retain
her humanity.
I liked Bill... a lot. The character had so much against her and some
of New Who's worst writing to contend with and saddled with too many
characteristices due to A Note From Network Programming Executives
demanding all sorts of checkboxes be checked. Still, she's a favorite
companion because, despite the writing, it was an incredibly strong
performance. Those are performances that should receive acting awards,
as the actor succeeded despite utter failure of everyone else.
Bill simply didn't deserve such a rotten end. We Hit You Over The Head
With DRAMA!!!!!!
Well, in the end was transformed. She's still there. Albeit not in an
original human form.

And yes, she's one of the best Companions of the modern era.

<snip>
--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

http://www.zeppodunsel.nl/tijdlijnen-timelines.html

liam=mail
Adam H. Kerman
2017-12-26 20:15:54 UTC
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Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
"Oh, brilliant."
SPOILERS can be found buried deep beneath the frozen Antarctic snow
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
**********************************************************************
(This is going to be a long synopsis, because some people don't seem to
have watched the same episode I did. Skip to the end if you're merely
curious about how I felt about it all).
Deep in the far future, humanity has set up a project to act as a
repository of memory - a testament for the human race. The project,
Testimony, is in possession of some incredibly advanced technology - some
sort of Time scoop or extraction chamber, enough memory storage to make
Google weep with envy, and really neat hard-light holograms that can appear
to be transparent, glasslike humanoid avatars or - when so desired - take
on the appearance of anyone they know about.
Which, as it turns out, is everyone. From all history. And not just humans.
I love how other races developed time travel, unknown to Gallifreyans.
How can they not learn of it?
The bit that's missing: The computer interface. Who uses the database?
How do they avoid minor crimes, not to mention major attrocities, from
all that knowledge? How did they prevent others from using time travel?
Me thinks they didn't. Time travel is all over the place, err, time.
That's phrased bad. There were times in which the Time Lords intervened
in other cultures' development, like the Daleks, to prevent them from
developing certain technologies. At one time, we thought they'd attempt
to keep a monopoly on time travel. The Daleks, of course, were
attempting to steal Time Lord technology.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Since when did humans ever have time travel? That's a huge change and
conflicts with plenty of post apocolyptic stories.
Early 22d Century it seems.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_travel
Yeah, yeah. I hated "Listen", the personality change in Clara, and the
Danny Pink character, and put it out of mind.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
There was even an agency, the most famous agent being Jack of course.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Agency
Right. I rather had the impression that it was like Torchwood, and used
alien technology. They began using the vortex manipulator in the 51st
century but was it developed by humans? If it was, I don't recall that
it was so stated in dialogue.

And yes, I remember the failed time cabinet from "The Talons of
Weng-Chiang".
Post by Wouter Valentijn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Because what Testimony does is to go back in time to moments before a
person's death, extract them from the interstices between two passing
instants, bring them into the future, record a copy of their entire life,
memories and personality (their soul?) - and then reinsert them back into
time, with no recall of having been abducted, just in time to die.
Which is a neat trick if you can do it.
In that future, archivists and curators have taken over the human race
and are plundering its resources to pay for this project.
Plundering? As an employee of an archive I take offense! :-)
Your archive doesn't have a budget for time travel, does it.
Post by Wouter Valentijn
. . .
Pudentame
2017-12-27 00:57:11 UTC
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On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 12:24:06 +0000 (UTC), The Last Doctor
David Bradley’s evocation of the spirit of Bill Hartnell’s Doctor was
delightful but some of Moffat’s scripting - dear oh dear. Hartnell was
gallant to women and condescending to all humans, but not casually sexist
in the heavy handed way Moffat wrote this dialogue. Yes, Polly did put the
kettle on a lot (see “The Moonbase” for the most egregious examples of her
acting as maid to the whole cast) but that was because her character was
that of a bubble headed dolly bird whose major contribution WAS to make the
coffee, not because the Doctor expected her to.
I too thought Bradley did a damn fine job of evoking William
Hartnell's Doctor.

But I didn't see the script as implying William Hartnell's "sexism" as
much as demonstrating of how much mores and gender rolls have changed
and how much The Doctor has grown in the years since Hartnell
originated the role.

Would today's Doctor Who audience accept a "bubble headed dolly bird"
as The Doctor's Assistant?

I think not. Not since Sarah Jane Smith. I don't think today's
audience would even accept a Peri or a Mel.

Not after Rose Tyler, Martha Jones, Donna Noble, Amy Pond, Clara
Oswald and Bill Potts ... or River Song.

But how are you going to demonstrate how much The Doctor has changed
through all of his regenerations and how much he has learned from his
assistants if you don't put it into the dialog?
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