Discussion:
S5E13 The Big Bang
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Agamemnon
2010-06-26 19:50:00 UTC
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Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.

New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.

What exactly did or did not happen?

Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.

But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.

So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.

So for a series which never actually happened.

10/10

Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
p***@aol.com
2010-06-26 20:10:21 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.

The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).

Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).

The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).

Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.

No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.

Phil
p***@aol.com
2010-06-26 20:17:18 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Agamemnon
2010-06-26 21:42:13 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ian B
2010-06-26 22:17:50 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night
before her wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when
plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the
universe based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted
the moment it was first opened, apparently, so that everything set
before the middle of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic
Daleks included). Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides
that because
the TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points
in time simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the
Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's
universe-restoring properties to all points in time as well. But
this means the TARDIS has to explode, with the Doctor inside it
(why couldn't he set the Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except
for everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the
explosion, which would never have existed in the same way as
something falling through one of the cracks (and despite the fact
that the Doctor would never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't
overrun by aliens in 2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of
this, which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing
ever happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was
never there with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been
created if Amy wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make
whatshisname deactivate the bomb inside him.
It's not going to make sense, this is New Who.

When Amy remembered the Doctor, because of some kind of psychic thing
because she was a time traveller or something, then the Universe became a
Universe in which the Doctor exists and always has existed, again. So Amy
and Rory got their memories back of all the past season's adventures.
Because they're special, because they're time travellers.

So I think now Amy and Rory remember "both lives" they've had. Because
they're time travellers, and thus special. That's been impressed several
times during the season, the crack immunity thing because of being a time
traveller. So Amy remembers being ordinary Amy Pond, and also remembers
being Amy Pond with no parents who met the plastic Daleks. And Rory
presumably remembers dying, and being Auton Rory too.

Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.


Ian
Agamemnon
2010-06-26 22:44:35 UTC
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Post by Ian B
Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night
before her wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when
plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the
universe based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted
the moment it was first opened, apparently, so that everything set
before the middle of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic
Daleks included). Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides
that because
the TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points
in time simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the
Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's
universe-restoring properties to all points in time as well. But
this means the TARDIS has to explode, with the Doctor inside it
(why couldn't he set the Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except
for everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the
explosion, which would never have existed in the same way as
something falling through one of the cracks (and despite the fact
that the Doctor would never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't
overrun by aliens in 2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of
this, which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing
ever happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was
never there with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been
created if Amy wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make
whatshisname deactivate the bomb inside him.
It's not going to make sense, this is New Who.
When Amy remembered the Doctor, because of some kind of psychic thing
because she was a time traveller or something, then the Universe became a
Universe in which the Doctor exists and always has existed, again. So Amy
and Rory got their memories back of all the past season's adventures.
Because they're special, because they're time travellers.
If the Doctor hadn't have existed then Amy and Rory wouldn't have been time
travellers and Earth would have been conquered by the Daleks and numerous
other alien races.
Post by Ian B
So I think now Amy and Rory remember "both lives" they've had. Because
Yes, because they are time travellers, they remember all alternate
realities.
Post by Ian B
they're time travellers, and thus special. That's been impressed several
times during the season, the crack immunity thing because of being a time
traveller. So Amy remembers being ordinary Amy Pond, and also remembers
being Amy Pond with no parents who met the plastic Daleks. And Rory
presumably remembers dying, and being Auton Rory too.
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
And the entire RTD S4 Dalek invasion.
Post by Ian B
Ian
TB
2015-12-27 03:44:10 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by Ian B
Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night
before her wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when
plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the
universe based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted
the moment it was first opened, apparently, so that everything set
before the middle of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic
Daleks included). Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides
that because
the TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points
in time simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the
Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's
universe-restoring properties to all points in time as well. But
this means the TARDIS has to explode, with the Doctor inside it
(why couldn't he set the Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except
for everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the
explosion, which would never have existed in the same way as
something falling through one of the cracks (and despite the fact
that the Doctor would never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't
overrun by aliens in 2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of
this, which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing
ever happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was
never there with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been
created if Amy wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make
whatshisname deactivate the bomb inside him.
It's not going to make sense, this is New Who.
When Amy remembered the Doctor, because of some kind of psychic thing
because she was a time traveller or something, then the Universe became a
Universe in which the Doctor exists and always has existed, again. So Amy
and Rory got their memories back of all the past season's adventures.
Because they're special, because they're time travellers.
If the Doctor hadn't have existed then Amy and Rory wouldn't have been time
travellers and Earth would have been conquered by the Daleks and numerous
other alien races.
Post by Ian B
So I think now Amy and Rory remember "both lives" they've had. Because
Yes, because they are time travellers, they remember all alternate
realities.
Post by Ian B
they're time travellers, and thus special. That's been impressed several
times during the season, the crack immunity thing because of being a time
traveller. So Amy remembers being ordinary Amy Pond, and also remembers
being Amy Pond with no parents who met the plastic Daleks. And Rory
presumably remembers dying, and being Auton Rory too.
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
And the entire RTD S4 Dalek invasion.
So the episodes "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" never happened? Shouldn't that mean that Donna Noble would still be the Doctor's Companion since the events which led to the Doctor having to erase her memory and fire her as his Companion didn't actually happen?
marc_CH
2010-06-26 23:07:18 UTC
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Post by Ian B
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
Wow.

What a picture.
--
marc
Mike Hall
2010-06-26 23:20:40 UTC
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Post by marc_CH
Post by Ian B
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
Wow.
What a picture.
Is Rory still an Auton? Will there ever be any attempt to explain
this?


Mike Hall
p***@aol.com
2010-06-27 07:32:20 UTC
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Post by marc_CH
Post by Ian B
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
Wow.
What a picture.
Is Rory still an Auton?  Will there ever be any attempt to explain
this?
He doesn't seem to think so - in the wedding scene he comments "I was
plastic", referring to his time with the Doctor.

Phil
TB
2015-12-27 03:23:05 UTC
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Post by Ian B
Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night
before her wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when
plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the
universe based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted
the moment it was first opened, apparently, so that everything set
before the middle of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic
Daleks included). Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides
that because
the TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points
in time simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the
Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's
universe-restoring properties to all points in time as well. But
this means the TARDIS has to explode, with the Doctor inside it
(why couldn't he set the Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except
for everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the
explosion, which would never have existed in the same way as
something falling through one of the cracks (and despite the fact
that the Doctor would never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't
overrun by aliens in 2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of
this, which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing
ever happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was
never there with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been
created if Amy wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make
whatshisname deactivate the bomb inside him.
It's not going to make sense, this is New Who.
When Amy remembered the Doctor, because of some kind of psychic thing
because she was a time traveller or something, then the Universe became a
Universe in which the Doctor exists and always has existed, again. So Amy
and Rory got their memories back of all the past season's adventures.
Because they're special, because they're time travellers.
So I think now Amy and Rory remember "both lives" they've had. Because
they're time travellers, and thus special. That's been impressed several
times during the season, the crack immunity thing because of being a time
traveller. So Amy remembers being ordinary Amy Pond, and also remembers
being Amy Pond with no parents who met the plastic Daleks. And Rory
presumably remembers dying, and being Auton Rory too.
Also I'm quite pleased at being right that Amy's Crack had swallowed her
parents.
When did Amy Pond meet plastic Daleks?
p***@aol.com
2010-06-26 22:30:50 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
I don't think it works that way - for a start, for purely pragmatic
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.

Phil
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-25 06:08:53 UTC
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On Saturday, June 26, 2010 at 3:30:50 PM UTC-7, ***@aol.com wrote:

for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
The Doctor
2018-04-25 14:42:10 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Yes.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Put more trust in nobility of character than in an oath. -Solon
Timothy Bruening
2018-05-16 12:38:09 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
The Doctor
2018-05-16 13:13:34 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
No.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Mistakes are the portals of discovery. -James Joyce
Timothy Bruening
2018-05-16 17:36:38 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
No.
Would Rory have been no vacation?
The Doctor
2018-05-16 21:34:37 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
No.
Would Rory have been no vacation?
Not that I know of.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Mistakes are the portals of discovery. -James Joyce
Timothy Bruening
2018-05-17 01:29:04 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
No.
Why WOULDN'T Rory have been on TARDIS for The Lodger if he hadn't died in Cold Blood?
The Doctor
2018-05-17 13:02:31 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
for purely pragmatic
Post by p***@aol.com
reasons the writers aren't going to do a 'season reset' since they
need future, say, Dalek or Silurian stories to follow on from previous
ones to avoid confusing the viewers. Also, in story terms the cracks
have only been relevant in Eleventh Hour, the Angel story and the
Silurian story. We know that both Eleventh Hour and the Angel story
are part of established continuity - Eleventh Hour because Amy met the
Doctor and the Angels story because River mentioned the Byzantium
adventure in Silence in the Library. Though it might mean that some
events within those stories can be changed - for instance, without the
crack, the Doctor and co. wouldn't have delayed in the cave long
enough for Restak to catch up with them and shoot Rory in "Cold
Blood" (pun intended), which would explain the real Rory surviving
that adventure.
Would Real Rory be retroactively inserted into "Vincent And The Doctor?
Also "The Lodger"?
No.
Why WOULDN'T Rory have been on TARDIS for The Lodger if he hadn't died in Cold Blood?
Rebooted in time.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
He will live ill who does not know how to die well. -Seneca
Ross
2010-06-27 05:07:16 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.

Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor. This
"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because
*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).

Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.

Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).

I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.
Agamemnon
2010-06-27 08:01:02 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
<<<In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.>>>

Those were part of Amyverse. If she hadn't been there with the Doctor the
bomb would have gone off or the Paradigm.to make the plastic Daleks would
not have been found.

<<<Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor. This>>>

Except Amy didn't have parents when the Doctor first met her. Now she does.
So the Daleks were part of Amyverse.

<<<"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because>>>

The part of the universe in the Pandorica was part of Amyverse.

<<<*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).>>>

Like the Time Was still going on since it was the Doctor that stopped it.

<<<Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.>>>

<<<Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).>>>

<<<I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.>>>
john smith
2010-06-28 18:18:20 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.

Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor.



****Exactly like the holographic universe theory then!****






This
"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because
*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).

Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.

Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).

I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.
The Doctor
2010-06-28 21:54:27 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.
Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor.
****Exactly like the holographic universe theory then!****
This
"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because
*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).
Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.
Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).
I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.
You married. Now there is a horror show.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
john smith
2010-06-29 00:18:45 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Ross
Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.
Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor.
****Exactly like the holographic universe theory then!****
This
"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because
*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).
Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.
Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).
I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.
You married. Now there is a horror show.
No - that'd be a fucking nightmare!

Anyway - YOU can talk! You're a forty-odd year old *virgin bachelor*! LOL!
Post by The Doctor
--
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
The Doctor
2010-06-29 00:25:01 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Ross
Post by Agamemnon
Which means nothing that happened which showed the cracks appearing ever
happened either, which is why Rory is not dead, and if Rory was never there
with Silurians then how can the plastic Daleks have been created if Amy
wasn't there during WW2 with Winston Churchill to make whatshisname
deactivate the bomb inside him.
In fact, my wife came up with the answer to this one. (And my wife has
a terrible memory for details in tv shows, including her having
completely forgotten all references to "the silence" by the time the
credits ended). It's very simple: the Pandorica recreated the universe
based on a snapshot of the universe that was preserved inside it when
it closed around the Doctor (The Doctor explains this much when he
introduces the concept of "Big Bang 2". Therefore, it contains
everything the "original" universe did, including the Mighty Morphing
Power Daleks.
Every point in the universe, every moment in time was "stamped" back
into the "proper" configuration -- everything except the Doctor.
****Exactly like the holographic universe theory then!****
This
"stamping" doesn't care that some of this universe state doesn't make
*sense* without the Doctor. Causality doesn't enter into it, because
*every point in history* has been rewritten. (Now, this might lead to
some Very Dire Consequences in the future if they so choose. Bits of
history that used to be stabled "fixed points" may have become
unstable because there are what amounts to Doctor-shaped holes in
reality).
Over and over this series (and to a lesser extent, the original
series), it's been demonstrated that once you throw time travel into
the mix, it is *not* necessarily the case that altering the cause
leads to a change in the effect. What this means, I can't say for
certain. 'Turn Left' gave us a clue, though, (I think there's a more
expository version of this somewhere else, though I can't recall),
demonstrating how time can sort of "fill in" the gaps as best it can
to spackle over changes to the timeline.
Of course, the question becomes rather moot once the Doctor is
summoned back into existence (You will note that Rory even remembers
being plastic).
I would not be surprised to see that various bits of continuity have
been fiddled with, though, since it would be rather out of character
for Doctor Who to portray this sort of universe restarting as being an
exact science.
You married. Now there is a horror show.
No - that'd be a nightmare!
Anyway - YOU can talk! You're a forty-odd year old *virgin bachelor*! LOL!
Post by The Doctor
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http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
Now I know how to kill you: Declare a wedding date.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
The Doctor
2010-06-26 23:46:42 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Good, thanks for the spoiler.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
TB
2016-07-09 06:06:41 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Are the Angels who fell into the big time crack (Flesh and Stone) retroactively restored?
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-25 05:59:36 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Also meaning that the Angels destroyed by the Crack at end of "Flesh And Stone" are retroactively undestroyed (resulting in them killing Doctor et al)?
The Doctor
2018-04-25 14:41:46 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
Oh yes, the cracks in the universe never happened as a result of this,
which is why Amy has her parents back.
Also meaning that the Angels destroyed by the Crack at end of "Flesh And
Stone" are retroactively undestroyed (resulting in them killing Doctor
et al)?
Yes! Just like Rory.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Put more trust in nobility of character than in an oath. -Solon
Agamemnon
2010-06-26 21:39:17 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
It's not restoring any universe. It's creating a second Big Bang. It's a
completely new universe they are supposed to be being (re-)created in.
Post by p***@aol.com
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
No. It never happened. It was all set inside a bubble in space-time along
with the Amy who didn't have any parents, just like Father's Day is set
inside another Bubble in space-time, where originally Rose's dad is killed
crossing the road but Rose saves him and then he's killed in a different
road outside the church.
Post by p***@aol.com
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
It's the TARDIS exploding which has created the bubble in space-time with
this alternate universe which is now collapsing since they have reach the
point where it explodes. When the Doctor stops the TARDIS exploding the
bubble no longer exists/can't be formed so the universe never existed, as
opposed to going out of existence, both of which happen simultaneously and
the Doctor gets thrown out with the TARDIS back into the real universe with
the memory of Amy and Rory who along with River Song through travelling in
the TARDIS continue to retain that memory in a different existence, like
when the whole universe changed after Rory died and was engulfed by the
crack, but the Doctor still remembered him and eventually Amy did also.
Post by p***@aol.com
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
The only property the Pandorica has is that it contains an image of the
universe before the TARDIS exploded. Therefore it needs to be destroyed in
order for the bubble to be broken. The Pandorica is what is allowing the
Earth to continued to exist while the rest of the universe has vanished and
is making up all those weird anomalies like penguins in Egypt in a universe
where reality is fractured.
Post by p***@aol.com
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
Why the Pandorica needed to be piloted anywhere is never explained since if
the TARDIS is exploding at all points of the universe then eventually the
explosion is going to reach the Pandorica anyway.
Post by p***@aol.com
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
All the more reason for my explanation being the correct one.
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
Her memory is just a dramatic device to reveal to the viewers that the
Doctor must still be there because she remembers him. You can view it as
someone having to observe Schrödinger's Cat in order for the course of it's
existence to be determined so since Amy remembered the Doctor then he must
have existed.
Post by p***@aol.com
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
He said that that's what he would do, though I don't think it will be
revealed in the Christmas special.
Post by p***@aol.com
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
The Wordsmith
2010-06-27 03:04:25 UTC
Reply
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news:7b9968e9-2205-42bd-b04b-
Post by p***@aol.com
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into the
exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
Why the Pandorica needed to be piloted anywhere is never explained since
if the TARDIS is exploding at all points of the universe then eventually
the explosion is going to reach the Pandorica anyway.
Actually, the math there is at least somewhat sound. Assume that we have
the three standard Cartesian axes, X, Y and Z. Since we're also talking
about spacetime, we also need to include the w-axis. We'll assume the
explosion begins at (0,0,0,0), centre of the graph, and approaches
infinity in all directions. If the Pandorica is only at, for example,
(42,907,1962,102 A.D.), then the explosion would push the Pandorica Light
to all points on the w-axis, since it happens in all points of time
simultaneously, but only in one vector along the x, y, and z-axis.

The Pandorica needs to be at (0,0,0,X) to be at the heart of the
explosion, and thus get transmitted evenly in all directions, throughout
all spacetime.

Keep in mind that the physics of how the restoration light works is
wildly speculative, but the basic math of an explosion in four-
dimensional geometry is there. If you explode, for example, a container
of petrol by dropping a match into the middle of it, the petrol will
explode simultaneously in all directions. If instead you detonate a bomb
next to it, the force of the explosion will only carry the petrol in one
direction (directly away from the bomb) and the rest of the area will be
unaffected.
--
The Wordsmith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:The_Wordsmith
Anthony Simone ***@gmail.com
Send flames to: /dev/null
Ignis Fatuus
2010-06-27 03:37:10 UTC
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Post by The Wordsmith
news:7b9968e9-2205-42bd-b04b-
Post by p***@aol.com
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into the
exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
Why the Pandorica needed to be piloted anywhere is never explained since
if the TARDIS is exploding at all points of the universe then eventually
the explosion is going to reach the Pandorica anyway.
Actually, the math there is at least somewhat sound. Assume that we have
the three standard Cartesian axes, X, Y and Z. Since we're also talking
about spacetime, we also need to include the w-axis. We'll assume the
explosion begins at (0,0,0,0), centre of the graph, and approaches
infinity in all directions. If the Pandorica is only at, for example,
(42,907,1962,102 A.D.), then the explosion would push the Pandorica Light
to all points on the w-axis, since it happens in all points of time
simultaneously, but only in one vector along the x, y, and z-axis.
The Pandorica needs to be at (0,0,0,X) to be at the heart of the
explosion, and thus get transmitted evenly in all directions, throughout
all spacetime.
Keep in mind that the physics of how the restoration light works is
wildly speculative, but the basic math of an explosion in four-
dimensional geometry is there. If you explode, for example, a container
of petrol by dropping a match into the middle of it, the petrol will
explode simultaneously in all directions. If instead you detonate a bomb
next to it, the force of the explosion will only carry the petrol in one
direction (directly away from the bomb) and the rest of the area will be
unaffected.
You haven't allowed for the effects of a 'previous' explosion which is
effectively still taking place. The Tardis explosion is purported to
have affected all of space and time simultaneously; but taking your
petrol can analogy, it too would only be swept along by the effects of
the Big Bang - unless it was timed to occur simultaneously with the
Big Bang, which proceeded from zero coordinates to create it's own
'space', along with all the mass-energy contained within that space.
Ross
2010-06-27 05:30:58 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Why the Pandorica needed to be piloted anywhere is never explained since if
the TARDIS is exploding at all points of the universe then eventually the
explosion is going to reach the Pandorica anyway.
My understanding of it is that if they just wait, then eventually the
Pandorica will cease to exist along with the Earth and whatever else
is left of the universe. By taking it to the "eye of the storm", it's
on the "outside", along with the Doctor, and therefore doesn't get
unmade
Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
Her memory is just a dramatic device to reveal to the viewers that the
Doctor must still be there because she remembers him. You can view it as
someone having to observe Schr�dinger's Cat in order for the course of it's
existence to be determined so since Amy remembered the Doctor then he must
have existed.
Schroedinger's cat is a nice analogy. The Doctor never existed. And
then Amy remembers him, and then he "did ever existed". In that order.
That's the thing that's special about Amy Pond: whereas everyone else
in the universe has to wait for something to exist before they can
remember it, impossible amy pond who lived her whole life next to a
crack in the universe gets to do it the other way around. The
Pandorica remade the universe based on extrapolating from <strike>a
slice of fairy cake </strike> the billion or so atoms that were
preserved inside it when it closed, and part of what it extrapolated
was "Impossible Amy Pond, who remembers the raggedy Doctor"
john smith
2010-06-28 18:05:59 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
It's not restoring any universe. It's creating a second Big Bang. It's a
completely new universe they are supposed to be being (re-)created in.
Post by p***@aol.com
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
No. It never happened. It was all set inside a bubble in space-time along
with the Amy who didn't have any parents, just like Father's Day is set
inside another Bubble in space-time, where originally Rose's dad is killed
crossing the road but Rose saves him and then he's killed in a different
road outside the church.
Post by p***@aol.com
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
It's the TARDIS exploding which has created the bubble in space-time with
this alternate universe which is now collapsing since they have reach the
point where it explodes. When the Doctor stops the TARDIS exploding the
bubble no longer exists/can't be formed so the universe never existed, as
opposed to going out of existence, both of which happen simultaneously and
the Doctor gets thrown out with the TARDIS back into the real universe
with the memory of Amy and Rory who along with River Song through
travelling in the TARDIS continue to retain that memory in a different
existence, like when the whole universe changed after Rory died and was
engulfed by the crack, but the Doctor still remembered him and eventually
Amy did also.
Post by p***@aol.com
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
The only property the Pandorica has is that it contains an image of the
universe before the TARDIS exploded.
Moffat should have dropped in a reference to Michael Talbot's theory of the
holographic universe. At least, as a bit of technobabble, that would partly
have made sense...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holographic_Universe





Therefore it needs to be destroyed in
Post by Agamemnon
order for the bubble to be broken. The Pandorica is what is allowing the
Earth to continued to exist while the rest of the universe has vanished
and is making up all those weird anomalies like penguins in Egypt in a
universe where reality is fractured.
Post by p***@aol.com
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
Why the Pandorica needed to be piloted anywhere is never explained since
if the TARDIS is exploding at all points of the universe then eventually
the explosion is going to reach the Pandorica anyway.
Post by p***@aol.com
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
All the more reason for my explanation being the correct one.
Post by p***@aol.com
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
Her memory is just a dramatic device to reveal to the viewers that the
Doctor must still be there because she remembers him. You can view it as
someone having to observe Schrödinger's Cat in order for the course of
it's existence to be determined so since Amy remembered the Doctor then he
must have existed.
Post by p***@aol.com
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
He said that that's what he would do, though I don't think it will be
revealed in the Christmas special.
Post by p***@aol.com
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Charles E Hardwidge
2010-06-29 00:08:12 UTC
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Post by john smith
Moffat should have dropped in a reference to Michael Talbot's theory of
the holographic universe. At least, as a bit of technobabble, that would
partly have made sense...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holographic_Universe
Might as well chuck in the Diamond Sutra while you're at it.

One funny thought is that in an infinitely of infinities everything gets
recycled to be everything else. Hello me.

It's enough to make you walk away from it all...
--
Charles E Hardwidge
TB
2015-12-27 04:10:14 UTC
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Great moments: The Doctor hopping back and force through time like a rabbit to set up his rescue and the rescue of Amy.

Amy stepping out of the Pandorica to meet young Amy. Why no Blinovitch Limitation Effect explosion?

The battles against the corroded Daleks.

The Doctor flying the Pandorica to the exploding TARDIS to restore the Universe.

The Doctor seeing his life rewind.

Amy attempting to recall the Doctor at her wedding reception. The Doctor arriving. Amy: You may definitely kiss the bride.

Amy and Rory going off in the TARDIS on their wedding night, which led to the unprecedented conception of a baby ON the TARDIS!
john smith
2010-06-28 18:00:31 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Of *course* it'll be revisted. It's a pretty crucial dangling plot thread
otherwise...
p***@aol.com
2010-06-29 13:09:53 UTC
Reply
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Of *course* it'll be revisted.  It's a pretty crucial dangling plot thread
otherwise...
I don't know - the whole story had a "what the hell" vibe summed up
nicely with Smith's response to Rory's "Why am I here?" - "Because you
are". That's why the whole thing *worked*. It didn't try to take
itself seriously like the Angel story, by trying to paper over
plotholes with explanations that didn't actually work. Nothing
happened for a reason, and it simply didn't matter that if you try to
examine the actual plot nearly every sentence/scene is logically
inconsistent with the rest of the story. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if the TARDIS explosion and sinister voice were just another
random "just because" moment in a story that so blatantly flaunted its
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
I actually rather hope they don't try to go back and explain it away;
Moffatt already made that mistake once by turning an off-the-cuff joke
about a duck pond into a plot point.

Phil
Charles E Hardwidge
2010-06-29 23:24:20 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
I don't know - the whole story had a "what the hell" vibe summed up
nicely with Smith's response to Rory's "Why am I here?" - "Because you
are". That's why the whole thing *worked*. It didn't try to take
itself seriously like the Angel story, by trying to paper over
plotholes with explanations that didn't actually work. Nothing
happened for a reason, and it simply didn't matter that if you try to
examine the actual plot nearly every sentence/scene is logically
inconsistent with the rest of the story. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if the TARDIS explosion and sinister voice were just another
random "just because" moment in a story that so blatantly flaunted its
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
I actually rather hope they don't try to go back and explain it away;
Moffatt already made that mistake once by turning an off-the-cuff joke
about a duck pond into a plot point.
The whole thing came off like the cock-tease Battlestar Galactica turned in
to. What pissed me off is how they ended up selling that show on a lie, how
shit the writing got especially in the last series, and how the actors
turned up to smile and pitch the show even when it was obviously a turd.
Again, there's all that press release led reviewing ("Best show on TV") and
everyone banging on about how they "cried" when they read the finale script.

Let's just face it: Doctor Who has betrayed the franchise, is badly written,
and just become a cash cow they're milking until it bleeds. As seems typical
of Britain I hope for the best but 99.999% of the time the idiots running
the show always come up with the worst of all the possible options.

And no. I'm not going to argue or spend my life banging on about it in some
newsgroup. If that's what "leaders" and the "market" want they're welcome to
it. I can find something else to do with my time.
--
Charles E Hardwidge
john smith
2010-06-30 00:33:07 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Of *course* it'll be revisted. It's a pretty crucial dangling plot thread
otherwise...
I don't know - the whole story had a "what the hell" vibe summed up
nicely with Smith's response to Rory's "Why am I here?" - "Because you
are". That's why the whole thing *worked*. It didn't try to take
itself seriously like the Angel story, by trying to paper over
plotholes with explanations that didn't actually work. Nothing
happened for a reason, and it simply didn't matter that if you try to
examine the actual plot nearly every sentence/scene is logically
inconsistent with the rest of the story. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if the TARDIS explosion and sinister voice were just another
random "just because" moment in a story that so blatantly flaunted its
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.



***On the contrary: if that was the case, then why even have the Doctor
bring it up and expressly say it was a question "for another time"? I mean,
come on, really... It's about as obvious a set-up line as you can get!***




I actually rather hope they don't try to go back and explain it away;
Moffatt already made that mistake once by turning an off-the-cuff joke
about a duck pond into a plot point.

Phil



***I hope - and expect - they will and that it may be a crucial part of next
year's stories. Or what might turn out to be the whole overarching story
arc of Moffat's tenure on the show. Unfortunately we have a while to wait
before we find out...***
Ross
2010-06-30 03:44:52 UTC
Reply
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Post by p***@aol.com
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
I'd agree with you if it weren't for the context of the line, which
was basically "Whoever it was who made the TARDIS explode is still out
there and all of existence is still in danger of The Silence Falling."
It's pretty clear here that Moffat had decided to actually stretch his
*plot* arc out over two seasons (RTD went halfway on this, stretching
out his theme and character arcs, but keeping the actual plots self-
contained*).

(*Though there are hints about The Master which precede Season 3; the
Face of Boe's secret is introduced at the start of season 2, and I
recently noticed that the phrase "Your lord and master" actually crops
up in three separate episodes in seasons 1 and 2)
john smith
2010-06-30 04:34:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by p***@aol.com
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
I'd agree with you if it weren't for the context of the line, which
was basically "Whoever it was who made the TARDIS explode is still out
there and all of existence is still in danger of The Silence Falling."
It's pretty clear here that Moffat had decided to actually stretch his
*plot* arc out over two seasons (RTD went halfway on this, stretching
out his theme and character arcs, but keeping the actual plots self-
contained*).

(*Though there are hints about The Master which precede Season 3; the
Face of Boe's secret is introduced at the start of season 2, and I
recently noticed that the phrase "Your lord and master" actually crops
up in three separate episodes in seasons 1 and 2)



All good and valid points - but how come you seem to be replying to me when
those comments up above are Phil's? (I did point out a few similar things
as you but those follow-up remarks to Phil are missing...)
Charles E Hardwidge
2010-06-30 04:47:36 UTC
Reply
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Post by john smith
All good and valid points - but how come you seem to be replying to me
when those comments up above are Phil's? (I did point out a few similar
things as you but those follow-up remarks to Phil are missing...)
Get a newsreader that works dicksplat.

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/OfflineInstallerForWindowsLiveEssentialsWLSetupAllexe.aspx

Click. Say yes when it wants to import your shit. Go.
--
Charles E Hardwidge
The Doctor
2010-07-07 21:30:31 UTC
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Post by Charles E Hardwidge
Post by john smith
All good and valid points - but how come you seem to be replying to me
when those comments up above are Phil's? (I did point out a few similar
things as you but those follow-up remarks to Phil are missing...)
Get a newsreader that works dicksplat.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/OfflineInstallerForWindowsLiveEssentialsWLSetupAllexe.aspx
--
Charles E Hardwidge
Troll Chuck vs TRoll smith.
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
p***@aol.com
2010-06-30 09:51:55 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ross
Post by p***@aol.com
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
I'd agree with you if it weren't for the context of the line, which
was basically "Whoever it was who made the TARDIS explode is still out
there and all of existence is still in danger of The Silence Falling."
That was a line I seem to have missed the first time - I'd been
thinking of the Doctor's dismissal of Amy's questions about why the
TARDIS exploded and how it took the universe with it.

Phil
p***@aol.com
2010-06-30 09:50:26 UTC
Reply
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Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Of *course* it'll be revisted. It's a pretty crucial dangling plot thread
otherwise...
I don't know - the whole story had a "what the hell" vibe summed up
nicely with Smith's response to Rory's "Why am I here?" - "Because you
are". That's why the whole thing *worked*. It didn't try to take
itself seriously like the Angel story, by trying to paper over
plotholes with explanations that didn't actually work. Nothing
happened for a reason, and it simply didn't matter that if you try to
examine the actual plot nearly every sentence/scene is logically
inconsistent with the rest of the story. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if the TARDIS explosion and sinister voice were just another
random "just because" moment in a story that so blatantly flaunted its
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
***On the contrary: if that was the case, then why even have the Doctor
bring it up and expressly say it was a question "for another time"?  I mean,
come on, really...  It's about as obvious a set-up line as you can get!***
Or just as a way to bring it up to show the audience the writer hadn't
forgotten about it, only to dismiss it as unimportant. "That's a
question for another time" is up there with "that's another story" as
code for "we're not going there",
Post by p***@aol.com
I actually rather hope they don't try to go back and explain it away;
Moffatt already made that mistake once by turning an off-the-cuff joke
about a duck pond into a plot point.
Phil
***I hope - and expect - they will and that it may be a crucial part of next
year's stories.  Or what might turn out to be the whole overarching story
arc of Moffat's tenure on the show.  Unfortunately we have a while to wait
before we find out...***
Just got round to rewatching the finale - the Doctor does actually
bring it up again at the end, in a way that suggests it is going to be
a continuing plot point after all.

Phil
john smith
2010-06-30 19:44:15 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
Phil
Of *course* it'll be revisted. It's a pretty crucial dangling plot thread
otherwise...
I don't know - the whole story had a "what the hell" vibe summed up
nicely with Smith's response to Rory's "Why am I here?" - "Because you
are". That's why the whole thing *worked*. It didn't try to take
itself seriously like the Angel story, by trying to paper over
plotholes with explanations that didn't actually work. Nothing
happened for a reason, and it simply didn't matter that if you try to
examine the actual plot nearly every sentence/scene is logically
inconsistent with the rest of the story. It wouldn't surprise me at
all if the TARDIS explosion and sinister voice were just another
random "just because" moment in a story that so blatantly flaunted its
utter randomness (with such things as the fez scene, for example). The
TARDIS blew up because there wouldn't be a story otherwise; there was
a sinister voice for the sake of being sinister. That's it. The
Doctor's "that's a question for another time" seemed a pretty
deliberate attempt to brush the explanation under the carpet for good.
***On the contrary: if that was the case, then why even have the Doctor
bring it up and expressly say it was a question "for another time"? I
mean,
come on, really... It's about as obvious a set-up line as you can get!***
Or just as a way to bring it up to show the audience the writer hadn't
forgotten about it, only to dismiss it as unimportant. "That's a
question for another time" is up there with "that's another story" as
code for "we're not going there",
Post by p***@aol.com
I actually rather hope they don't try to go back and explain it away;
Moffatt already made that mistake once by turning an off-the-cuff joke
about a duck pond into a plot point.
Phil
***I hope - and expect - they will and that it may be a crucial part of next
year's stories. Or what might turn out to be the whole overarching story
arc of Moffat's tenure on the show. Unfortunately we have a while to wait
before we find out...***
Just got round to rewatching the finale - the Doctor does actually
bring it up again at the end, in a way that suggests it is going to be
a continuing plot point after all.

Phil



Well, it IS bloody obvious - even by your rigid set of rules regarding story
and plot!
TB
2015-12-27 03:38:28 UTC
Reply
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Post by p***@aol.com
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
When the Pandorica was used to "reboot" the Universe, did it recreate the sections that had gotten destroyed during "Logopolis"?
Tim Bruening
2016-07-11 03:25:42 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
As long as the universe is being recreated, why not delete the Daleks and Cybermen?
Daniel47
2016-07-11 10:51:35 UTC
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<Snip>
Post by Tim Bruening
As long as the universe is being recreated, why not delete the Daleks and Cybermen?
but think of all those adventures The Doctor & Co will not have?? Life
could get real boring, real quick!!

Daniel
The Doctor
2016-07-11 14:40:06 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Also, we never learned who was controlling the TARDIS and causing it
to blow up - maybe because Moffatt wants a longer-running story arc
and thsi will continue to be a mystery into next year, but more likely
because it was conveniently sinister to have someone controlling it
while announcing "Silence will fall" and now that its story purpose
has been served, it will never be revisited.
As long as the universe is being recreated, why not delete the Daleks and Cybermen?
They got recreated.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Tim Bruening
2017-01-26 13:44:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Sorry, Aggy, but that's pretty much all wrong.
The Pandorica manifests a magical new ability to restore the universe
based on a 'memory' imprinted in it - a memory imprinted the moment it
was first opened, apparently, so that everything set before the middle
of The Pandorica Opens still happened (plastic Daleks included).
Through some sort of technobabble, the Doctor decides that because the
TARDIS is exploding and destroying the universe at all points in time
simultaneously (except Earth, of course), flying the Pandorica into
the exploding TARDIS will transfer the Pandorica's universe-restoring
properties to all points in time as well. But this means the TARDIS
has to explode, with the Doctor inside it (why couldn't he set the
Pandorica on autopilot is never explained).
The result of all this should be a fully restored universe, except for
everything that wasn't in the TARDIS at the centre of the explosion,
which would never have existed in the same way as something falling
through one of the cracks (and despite the fact that the Doctor would
never have existed, somehow the Earth isn't overrun by aliens in
2010).
Then, by magic, the Doctor and TARDIS come back to life because Amy
remembers them, and Moffatt's decided to take the idea that if you
remember something it's not actually dead a bit too literally.
No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but there you have it.
Did the Doctor have the presence of mind to restore the damage done during "Logopolis"? If so, kudos to the creators!

But why restore the Daleks, Cybermen, et al?
Tim Bruening
2017-07-06 17:03:32 UTC
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Animals: A dinosaur and penguins on Amy's brochure. A stuffed polar bear and maybe a giant spider at the Museum of Natural History.

Why didn't the guards find the posted note for Amy on the Pandorica. I assume that they would have been searching the Museum for Amy after her aunt reported her missing.
The Doctor
2017-07-06 21:34:03 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: A dinosaur and penguins on Amy's brochure. A stuffed polar
bear and maybe a giant spider at the Museum of Natural History.
Why didn't the guards find the posted note for Amy on the Pandorica. I
assume that they would have been searching the Museum for Amy after her
aunt reported her missing.
Trivis Pursuit Spam trolling noted
--
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Tim Bruening
2017-07-06 21:56:37 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: A dinosaur and penguins on Amy's brochure. A stuffed polar
bear and maybe a giant spider at the Museum of Natural History.
Why didn't the guards find the posted note for Amy on the Pandorica. I
assume that they would have been searching the Museum for Amy after her
aunt reported her missing.
Trivis Pursuit Spam trolling noted
There is still the matter of how the post-it note on the Pandorica escaped the guards.
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-26 12:39:26 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: A dinosaur and penguins on Amy's brochure. A stuffed polar
bear and maybe a giant spider at the Museum of Natural History.
Why didn't the guards find the posted note for Amy on the Pandorica. I
assume that they would have been searching the Museum for Amy after her
aunt reported her missing.
Trivis Pursuit Spam trolling noted
There is still the matter of how the post-it note on the Pandorica escaped the guards.
Perception filter on a post-it note?
marc_CH
2010-06-26 23:05:30 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams
Hitchhikers plot than a Doctor Who plot.
Watched it. Endured it. /Hated it./

More DEM than anyone with any sense could stomach, more technobabble
spouted to cover up for gaping plot holes, mostly generated because
there is no way back from the set up of the last episode.

Really, this was *shite*.
--
marc
The Doctor
2010-06-26 23:44:02 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
10/10
Can't wait for the Christmas special and the next series, which hopefully
will happen.
Thank you as always!!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Since 1 June 1995
Duggan
2010-06-27 03:21:10 UTC
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(spoilers)





I would have liked that if it hadn't been for the initial Bill and Ted
trick.

I really liked robot Rory standing guard for 2000 years. I really
liked 'Something old, something new, something borrowed, something
blue.'

It made sense for the Pandorica to be able to keep people alive. If
the Doctor dies he regenerates, and the regeneration energy might have
blown it up.

Zipping back and forth through time in the museum - fun, made sense.

Earth still exists because it's the eye of the storm - all right, I
won't question that. Lame and lazy explanation, but let it go.

Statue non-existent Daleks - oh, go on then.

Being able to extrapolate all of space-time from the bits in the
Pandorica, using the Tardis explosion to broadcast it - OK, if you say
so, fairly standard technobabble, makes a certain kind of sense.

Amy bringing the Doctor back by remembering - well, it worked as a
scene, and it was well sign-posted. Likewise the Doctor's rewind,
groundwork laid throughout the series. Accepted it, liked it, quite
touching. He seemed to become a slumpy old grandfather after getting
shot, channeling Hartnell or someone.

But that first, sub-Bill-and-Ted 'he escaped because he came back from
the future after he escaped'... No. Awful. Unacceptable. Insulting.
Ruined everything that followed because I was still open-mouthed from
it.

Not to be pious, but shouldn't TV encourage kids to reason and make
sense of the universe, not reduce them to '**** happens'?

End pious. I don't care about the kids, that was an insult to me.

I love a good time paradox, but they have to follow basic causality,
the first run through history before the time travel messes it up has
to make sense.

Man invents time machine, travels back in time and kills his father
before he's conceived - OK, perfect sense. Narrative continuity.

Man dies. Then doesn't die because, after he dies, he invents a time
machine and goes back and stops himself dying. No sense whatsoever.
Utter utter ****.

Apart from anything else, whenever the Doctor's in a tight corner in
the future, you can just think, 'Well, why doesn't he use the Bill and
Ted trick again?' Maybe he will.

Other nitpicks - no duckpond explanation, unless it turns out five
years from now that The Silence stole all the ducks, and all the
perception filters in the series weren't foreshadowing but overuse.

Other gripes about the series as a whole:

Amy's tended to a Tate-like shoutiness in some of the recent
episodes.

The Doctor should not have been good at football in the lodging one.
The Doctor is not meant to be David Watts from that Jam song. The
Doctor is meant to give hope to the geeky brainy kids who aren't good
at football.

Other than that I've enjoyed it. A couple of stand-out episodes (I
loved the Vincent one, I liked that the actor playing him had the
charazzma to put even the Doctor in the shade), some blah monster
chase ones, mostly fun. Smith and Gillen are excellent, the best in
ages, and I like Rory now. Will give the next series a try at least.
Don't regret watching this one, still think it's been a slight
improvement of style on the RTD years, but... Must Try Harder at
times. Whether Stephen Fry's right or not, I think Dr Who should be
something that you don't have to take your brain off the hook to
watch.
Duggan
2010-06-27 03:27:10 UTC
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It was -worse- than Bill and Ted. Bill and Ted -planned- to go back
and save themselves. The Doctor was surprised by it.
The Wordsmith
2010-06-27 04:06:03 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 20:21:10 -0700, Duggan wrote:

(snip)
I really liked robot Rory standing guard for 2000 years. I really liked
'Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.'
I loved that too, though I did see it coming when he was telling Amelia
his story.
Being able to extrapolate all of space-time from the bits in the
Pandorica, using the Tardis explosion to broadcast it - OK, if you say
so, fairly standard technobabble, makes a certain kind of sense.
There was something in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about the
principle that "since every piece of matter in the Universe is in someway
affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory
possible to extrapolate the whole of creation - every Galaxy, every sun,
every planet, their orbits, their composition, and their economic and
social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake." The practical
upshot of this was the Total Perspective Vortex. The scene in this
episode seems an homage to that.

(snip)
Other nitpicks - no duckpond explanation, unless it turns out five years
from now that The Silence stole all the ducks, and all the perception
filters in the series weren't foreshadowing but overuse.
I think this is just one example of how Amy's life made no sense, like
the big empty house. They probably got absorbed by the crack, along with
her parents. They know its a duck pond, even though there never have been
any ducks.
Amy's tended to a Tate-like shoutiness in some of the recent episodes.
I like the shoutiness on occasion, it provides a counterpoint to Smith's
quiet-but-manic personality.
--
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Anthony Simone ***@gmail.com
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Ignis Fatuus
2010-06-27 04:20:13 UTC
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Post by The Wordsmith
(snip)
I really liked robot Rory standing guard for 2000 years. I really liked
'Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.'
I loved that too, though I did see it coming when he was telling Amelia
his story.
Being able to extrapolate all of space-time from the bits in the
Pandorica, using the Tardis explosion to broadcast it - OK, if you say
so, fairly standard technobabble, makes a certain kind of sense.
There was something in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about the
principle that "since every piece of matter in the Universe is in someway
affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory
possible to extrapolate the whole of creation - every Galaxy, every sun,
every planet, their orbits, their composition, and their economic and
social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake." The practical
upshot of this was the Total Perspective Vortex. The scene in this
episode seems an homage to that.
It's an amusing conceit; but the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and
the Pauli Exclusion Principle effectively render it invalid.
Post by The Wordsmith
(snip)
Other nitpicks - no duckpond explanation, unless it turns out five years
from now that The Silence stole all the ducks, and all the perception
filters in the series weren't foreshadowing but overuse.
I think this is just one example of how Amy's life made no sense, like
the big empty house. They probably got absorbed by the crack, along with
her parents. They know its a duck pond, even though there never have been
any ducks.
Amy's tended to a Tate-like shoutiness in some of the recent episodes.
I like the shoutiness on occasion, it provides a counterpoint to Smith's
quiet-but-manic personality.
Ian B
2010-06-27 07:50:08 UTC
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Post by Ignis Fatuus
Post by The Wordsmith
(snip)
Post by Duggan
I really liked robot Rory standing guard for 2000 years. I really
liked 'Something old, something new, something borrowed, something
blue.'
I loved that too, though I did see it coming when he was telling
Amelia his story.
Post by Duggan
Being able to extrapolate all of space-time from the bits in the
Pandorica, using the Tardis explosion to broadcast it - OK, if you
say so, fairly standard technobabble, makes a certain kind of sense.
There was something in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about the
principle that "since every piece of matter in the Universe is in
someway affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it
is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation - every
Galaxy, every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition,
and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of
fairy cake." The practical upshot of this was the Total Perspective
Vortex. The scene in this episode seems an homage to that.
It's an amusing conceit; but the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and
the Pauli Exclusion Principle effectively render it invalid.
Er, real physics renders the whole series invalid. Time travel is
impossible, faster than light travel is impossible, teleportation (in the
sci-fi sense) is impossible, etc.

You can't really apply real world physics to this kind of a show.


Ian
Ignis Fatuus
2010-06-27 07:52:28 UTC
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On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:50:08 +0100, "Ian B"
Post by Ian B
Post by Ignis Fatuus
Post by The Wordsmith
(snip)
Post by Duggan
I really liked robot Rory standing guard for 2000 years. I really
liked 'Something old, something new, something borrowed, something
blue.'
I loved that too, though I did see it coming when he was telling
Amelia his story.
Post by Duggan
Being able to extrapolate all of space-time from the bits in the
Pandorica, using the Tardis explosion to broadcast it - OK, if you
say so, fairly standard technobabble, makes a certain kind of sense.
There was something in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about the
principle that "since every piece of matter in the Universe is in
someway affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it
is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation - every
Galaxy, every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition,
and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of
fairy cake." The practical upshot of this was the Total Perspective
Vortex. The scene in this episode seems an homage to that.
It's an amusing conceit; but the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and
the Pauli Exclusion Principle effectively render it invalid.
Er, real physics renders the whole series invalid. Time travel is
impossible, faster than light travel is impossible, teleportation (in the
sci-fi sense) is impossible, etc.
You can't really apply real world physics to this kind of a show.
I just did.
Ross
2010-06-27 05:14:52 UTC
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Post by Duggan
I love a good time paradox, but they have to follow basic causality,
the first run through history before the time travel messes it up has
to make sense.
Even when *history itself no longer has ever existed*? Really?

Anyway, I have spent several years being very sick of the arrogance of
people who complain about how time travel doesn't work like that.
Because you're an expert in how causality works in the presence of
time travel. You should write a paper on it. I'd love to see your
sources.

(Protip: The absolute fundamental assumption on which everything we
know about logic and causality rests is that *time only goes one way,
and the effect must always happen after the cause*. Once you insert
time travel, *literally everything* we know about causality is no
longer well-founded.)
Post by Duggan
Amy's tended to a Tate-like shoutiness in some of the recent
episodes.
But not this one. Amy was good in this one.
Post by Duggan
The Doctor should not have been good at football in the lodging one.
The Doctor is not meant to be David Watts from that Jam song. The
Doctor is meant to give hope to the geeky brainy kids who aren't good
at football.
Also, the show should not be enjoyable to girls or people who don't
live in their parents' basements. And it needs more anoraks.
Duggan
2010-06-28 21:42:02 UTC
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Ross wrote:

"Also, the show should not be enjoyable to girls or people who don't
live in their parents' basements. And it needs more anoraks."

Who said any of that?

Isn't it enough that he's now a one-man-army and demi-god, does he
have to be Kevin Keegan as well?

"Amy was good in this one."

Agreed.

"Because you're an expert in how causality works in the presence of
time travel. You should write a paper on it. I'd love to see your
sources."

I would need a pen and a beer mat to prove it to you. But I'm not
talking about science. I'm talking about narrative. I'm talking about
a basic respect for your audience.

I loved 'Blink'. But the messed-up causality worked in that because:

It was disguised, because it seemed, although probably wasn't, more
complicated than this.
The story was largely about the paradoxes.
The main cause-effect reversal was only revealed at the end, by which
time we already loved the episode. It came as a nice, satisfying,
fitting twist, almost expected by that point.
Most importantly, it was a self-contained one-off, not a cliffhanger-
resolving conclusion to the season finale.

The Bill and Ted trick in this was a spit in the face to everyone
who'd cared enough to wonder how he could get out of it.

The Doctor and his companion fall off a precipice into a thousand foot
chasm. Death seems certain. There are four options:

1. The ethical writer option.

The doctor activates a device we saw him find and pocket, which turns
out to be a futuristic parachute. Or they drop into a net placed by
some creatures who are going to be important to the plot, whom if we
haven't encountered them already we've at least glimpsed shuffling
about in the shadows.

2. The baffling techno-babble option.

The Doctor points the screwdriver and yells 'I'm polarizing the rocks
at the bottom to repel us,' or something less obviously nonsense.
After a few tense moments when it looks like it isn't going to work,
it works and they float up.

3. The uplifting psycho-babble option.

The Doctor says, 'Amy, the most powerful force in the universe is the
human mind. There is nothing, nothing you can't do if you believe in
yourself. Amy, you have to have faith in yourself. If you believe you
can fly, you can fly.'

After tense moments of self-doubt, Amy believes she can fly and they
fly. Cue Murray Gold.

4. The nonsense, phoning-it-in, bad-fever-dream, turn-the-show-into-a-
comedy option:

Instead of falling they float up. The Doctor says, 'That's a pleasant
surprise, the law of gravity appears to have been temporarily
rescinded just as we fell off the cliff. I like it when that happens.'

Everything else in the episode and the series fell into category 1, 2
or 3. I don't object to 2 that much. I don't even object to the
screwdriver-as-magic-wand; in the new format he doesn't have time to
build elaborate machines. I don't particularly object to 3 if it's
done well, in fact I'm a sucker for it at times. I have not
complained, arrogantly or otherwise, about any plotholes in this
series or any of the preceding ones I've seen. It's an SF/fantasy show
partly aimed at kids and it's meant to be fun. It is fun and I cut it
some slack.

But that first Bill and Ted escape from the Pandorica falls squarely
into category 4. It was lazy, inept and embarrassing.


The Wordsmith wrote:

"I did see it coming when he was telling Amelia his story."

Kudos. Annoyingly, I recently watched the excellent 'A Scanner
Darkly', which features a similar device, and I still didn't twig.


Anyone want to speculate why Amy didn't remember the Daleks? Was there
something I missed that explained it, or is it part of the ongoing
mystery?
p***@aol.com
2010-06-28 22:21:39 UTC
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Post by Duggan
"Also, the show should not be enjoyable to girls or people who don't
live in their parents' basements. And it needs more anoraks."
Who said any of that?
Isn't it enough that he's now a one-man-army and demi-god, does he
have to be Kevin Keegan as well?
"Amy was good in this one."
Agreed.
"Because you're an expert in how causality works in the presence of
time travel. You should write a paper on it. I'd love to see your
sources."
I would need a pen and a beer mat to prove it to you. But I'm not
talking about science. I'm talking about narrative. I'm talking about
a basic respect for your audience.
It was disguised, because it seemed, although probably wasn't, more
complicated than this.
The story was largely about the paradoxes.
The main cause-effect reversal was only revealed at the end, by which
time we already loved the episode. It came as a nice, satisfying,
fitting twist, almost expected by that point.
Most importantly, it was a self-contained one-off, not a cliffhanger-
resolving conclusion to the season finale.
The Bill and Ted trick in this was a spit in the face to everyone
who'd cared enough to wonder how he could get out of it.
The Doctor and his companion fall off a precipice into a thousand foot
1. The ethical writer option.
The doctor activates a device we saw him find and pocket, which turns
out to be a futuristic parachute. Or they drop into a net placed by
some creatures who are going to be important to the plot, whom if we
haven't encountered them already we've at least glimpsed shuffling
about in the shadows.
2. The baffling techno-babble option.
The Doctor points the screwdriver and yells 'I'm polarizing the rocks
at the bottom to repel us,' or something less obviously nonsense.
After a few tense moments when it looks like it isn't going to work,
it works and they float up.
3. The uplifting psycho-babble option.
The Doctor says, 'Amy, the most powerful force in the universe is the
human mind. There is nothing, nothing you can't do if you believe in
yourself. Amy, you have to have faith in yourself. If you believe you
can fly, you can fly.'
After tense moments of self-doubt, Amy believes she can fly and they
fly. Cue Murray Gold.
4. The nonsense, phoning-it-in, bad-fever-dream, turn-the-show-into-a-
Instead of falling they float up. The Doctor says, 'That's a pleasant
surprise, the law of gravity appears to have been temporarily
rescinded just as we fell off the cliff. I like it when that happens.'
Everything else in the episode and the series fell into category 1, 2
or 3.
Such as the never-previously-mentioned toxic fumigation gas Eldane
uses to beat the Silurians? Why would anyone make their fumigation gas
toxic to themselves anyway? That's like a fire alarm that encourages
people to get out of the building by setting them alight.

Such as the never-previously-suggested phone virus the Doctor creates
to flag Prisoner Zero's presence to the Atraxi? Fits into category 2 -
but also category 4, as it was pretty nonsensical.

Such as the never-previously-mentioned ability of the Pandorica to
technobabble someone back to life? Another offender on both count 2
and count 4.

The crack in Flesh and Stone is very nearly verging on a 4 - the
cracks had been seen before, but a crack that manifests an entirely
new property just in time to save the day is a definite 4. It only
squeezes out of this category by having the Doctor mention that it
would take all the Angels to close it instead of him - and even then
that was within two minutes of the crack doing exactly that.
Conversely, as someone suggested a while back, it could be suggested
that the Angels suddenly manifesting the ability to collectively close
the crack by falling into it is a 4.

This season has been *full* of exactly this sort of thing, as well as
the pure technobabble and pure psychobabble DEMs. The saving grace is
that it's much less embarrassing than the psychobabble option, and
funnier to boot (as for "turn-the-show-into-a-comedy", bear in mind
that the showrunner is a sitcom writer, and that one of only two
stories the this year *not* written by someone best-known for sitcoms,
comedy drama or romantic comedy - The Lodger - was perhaps the most
deliberately sitcomesque episode of the season. Also, Who has always
been at its best when it's allowed itself to be funny).

I don't object to 2 that much. I don't even object to the
Post by Duggan
screwdriver-as-magic-wand; in the new format he doesn't have time to
build elaborate machines. I don't particularly object to 3 if it's
done well, in fact I'm a sucker for it at times.
Sadly it hasn't been done well this year - possibly partly because the
psychobabble solutions seem to be given to Amy, and Gillan's not good
at making her character appear sympathetic.

I have not
Post by Duggan
complained, arrogantly or otherwise, about any plotholes in this
series or any of the preceding ones I've seen. It's an SF/fantasy show
partly aimed at kids and it's meant to be fun. It is fun and I cut it
some slack.
But that first Bill and Ted escape from the Pandorica falls squarely
into category 4. It was lazy, inept and embarrassing.
Suit yourself - I found it much more embarrassing that they tried to
clone Dark Star's talking-the-bomb-out-of-exploding sequence *but took
it seriously*. The time-jumping Doctor was blatantly done for laughs;
the entire episode was an exercise in gleefully ignoring any kind of
internal consistency for the sake of a fun ride. It would have
undeniably been better storytelling if, in the scene where the Doctor
gives Rory the ring, he had also manufactured an excuse to give Rory
the screwdriver, but then we'd have had a rather bland opening
sequence where Rory realises "oh, I've gone the sonic" and goes to
open the box. Just occasionally, breaking the rules works - I just get
irritated when it's done consistently with little payoff for doing so
(would it have been that hard to work out a reason for the Angels,
wanting a power source inside the ship as they were, to leave it just
to chase the Doctor and co. inside? Or give them a reason to need
bodies that explained (a) why they killed three people when they only
needed one to communicate with the Doctor, (b) why they needed to
communicate with him anyway, and (c) when they already had what they
needed why they killed Octavian rather than displacing him in time?)
The difference here is that going with logical consistency would cost
the episode a funny scene; in most of the series so far, going with
logical consistency wouldn't alter anything in the atmosphere or
tension of the episode but would improve the storytelling.
Post by Duggan
Anyone want to speculate why Amy didn't remember the Daleks? Was there
something I missed that explained it, or is it part of the ongoing
mystery?
The Doctor seemed to conclude in Flesh and Stone that that event had
been erased from history by the crack, along with the Cyberking and,
um, the ducks. Of course, in that case the logic of the ongoing story
would imply that, being part of the Doctor's personal history, he
should have forgotten those events as well. Alternatively, it can just
be waved away as 'Amy's weird because she grew up with the crack'.

Phil
Ignis Fatuus
2010-06-28 23:54:51 UTC
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Post by p***@aol.com
Such as the never-previously-mentioned toxic fumigation gas Eldane
uses to beat the Silurians? Why would anyone make their fumigation gas
toxic to themselves anyway? That's like a fire alarm that encourages
people to get out of the building by setting them alight.
Cyanide gas has regularly been used for the fumigation of commercial
greenhouses.
TB
2016-07-09 06:02:58 UTC
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Post by Ignis Fatuus
Post by p***@aol.com
Such as the never-previously-mentioned toxic fumigation gas Eldane
uses to beat the Silurians? Why would anyone make their fumigation gas
toxic to themselves anyway? That's like a fire alarm that encourages
people to get out of the building by setting them alight.
Cyanide gas has regularly been used for the fumigation of commercial
greenhouses.
Do environmentalists approve?
The Doctor
2016-07-09 14:06:59 UTC
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Post by TB
Post by Ignis Fatuus
Post by p***@aol.com
Such as the never-previously-mentioned toxic fumigation gas Eldane
uses to beat the Silurians? Why would anyone make their fumigation gas
toxic to themselves anyway? That's like a fire alarm that encourages
people to get out of the building by setting them alight.
Cyanide gas has regularly been used for the fumigation of commercial
greenhouses.
Do environmentalists approve?
Yawn.
--
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Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
TB
2015-12-27 03:26:52 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was)
I had assumed that the "Iron sides" Daleks were made of metal.
TB
2015-12-27 03:50:26 UTC
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Here's an oddity: The TARDIS was scheduled to explode and wipe out the Universe on June 26, 2010, and "The Big Bang" was broadcast on that very date!
TB
2016-03-02 08:14:23 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
Did "The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood" happen? If not, what is the status of the poor Silurians under the oil drilling equipment? Without the intervention of the Doctor et al, will the Silurians burst out and wipe out humanity in the year 2020?

Will that poor Star Whale continue to be tortured, without Amy to free it?

Will the Fish Vampires take over Venice?
TB
2016-03-02 08:27:08 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
When the Doctor rebooted the Universe, did he have the presence of mind to undo the damage done by the Master during "Logopolis"?

Did it occur to him to restore Saturnine so that the fish vampires don't go extinct?

Did he restore Skaro, enabling the events of the first two Season 9 episodes?
Tim Bruening
2016-07-11 03:22:18 UTC
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Most of this episode occurs in an alternate history where Earth is the only planet in the universe, and there are no stars in the night sky. Earth is kept warm by the exploding TARDIS. History has records of a big cube that was dug up and taken back to Rome, and later housed in a British museum, along with penguins. All this should lead to different sequences of events, including differing sequences of people mating. How then did the sequence of matings which led to Amy occur in the alternate universe?
The Doctor
2016-07-11 14:38:24 UTC
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Most of this episode occurs in an alternate history where Earth is the only=
planet in the universe, and there are no stars in the night sky. Earth is=
kept warm by the exploding TARDIS. History has records of a big cube that=
was dug up and taken back to Rome, and later housed in a British museum, a=
long with penguins. All this should lead to different sequences of events,=
including differing sequences of people mating. How then did the sequence=
of matings which led to Amy occur in the alternate universe?
Alternate? The effect was due to time crack.
--
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God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Tim Bruening
2016-09-20 14:50:27 UTC
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At the start, young Amy prays for someone to fix the crack in her wall. In the house is at least one adult. Why doesn't she ask that adult to fix her crack?
Tim Bruening
2016-10-15 17:41:25 UTC
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Great moments: The Doctor flying the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS.

The Doctor's life rewinding until he gets back to 7 year old Amy's yard, where he tells picks up Amy, puts her to bed, and gives her a message to remember.
Tim Bruening
2016-10-15 17:46:41 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Great moments: The Doctor flying the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS.
The Doctor's life rewinding until he gets back to 7 year old Amy's yard, where he tells picks up Amy, puts her to bed, and gives her a message to remember.
The Doctor tells young Amy that her parents would be back, and that he (The Doctor) would just be a story/dream in her head.
Tim Bruening
2017-01-26 13:40:14 UTC
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Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
Tim Bruening
2017-01-26 13:49:04 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
The Doctor
2017-01-26 13:58:00 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
That is a hoot.
--
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God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthdate 29 Jan 1969 Redhill Surrey England
Tim Bruening
2017-01-27 04:27:06 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
That is a hoot.
I may have also heard wolves howling.
The Doctor
2017-01-27 06:51:26 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
That is a hoot.
I may have also heard wolves howling.
OW!!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthdate 29 Jan 1969 Redhill Surrey England
Tim Bruening
2017-01-27 16:21:09 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
That is a hoot.
I may have also heard wolves howling.
OW!!
Where did you get hurt?
The Doctor
2017-01-27 16:22:32 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during
the rewind.
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
I think I heard owls hooting just after the Doctor stepped into the crack.
That is a hoot.
I may have also heard wolves howling.
OW!!
Where did you get hurt?
Wolves can be painful!!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthdate 29 Jan 1969 Redhill Surrey England
Tim Bruening
2017-01-26 13:51:32 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: Penguins on a museum brochure. A cat with Amy during the rewind.
A Rhino on the museum pamphlet. A stuffed animal in Amy's bedroom.
Tim Bruening
2016-07-11 03:24:24 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
What exactly did or did not happen?
Presumably the Doctor uses the time ring to go back to when the TARDIS was
going to blow up, after he rescued River Song, and then pulls the plug out
so it doesn't actually blow up, and then lands lands in on Amy's wedding.
But this Amy has parents and Rory is still alive, so it clearly isn't the
universe that he was in before, but a different one. The previous universe
never existed and the Doctor is trapped outside of it, just like he said,
ie. in the "new" or current universe and the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River
Song have psychic connections with themselves in the other universe caused
by the "silence" which are the source of their memories.
So does that mean the plastic Daleks never existed since clearly if Amy has
not travelled with the Doctor in this universe, on the night before her
wedding then the Doctor would not have been there when plastic Daleks were
created in 1942 (or whenever year it was), otherwise if she has travelled
with the Doctor and wakes up after Doctor has taken her back home then Rory
would have been killed by the Silurian, unless the Rory that Amy has just
married is Auton Rory.
So for a series which never actually happened.
What will happen with the Silurians in 2020 if the events of "The Hungry Earth" did not happen? Ditto for "Vampires of Venice".
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-09 15:22:52 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks, Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Daniel60
2018-04-10 06:11:19 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks, Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
--
Daniel
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-10 06:42:56 UTC
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Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks, Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
I have seen numerous enemies other then those 3.
The Doctor
2018-04-10 15:09:36 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks,
Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Post by Daniel60
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
I have seen numerous enemies other then those 3.
WEll do you want to rewrite the Whoniverse?
--
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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
It is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed. -Vida D. Scudder
The Doctor
2018-04-10 14:56:21 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks,
Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
--
Daniel
Just a restoration.
--
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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
It is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed. -Vida D. Scudder
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-25 05:40:58 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks,
Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
--
Daniel
Just a restoration.
Including parts destroyed by the Master (Logopolis)?
The Doctor
2018-04-25 14:38:31 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams
Hitchhikers
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been
pressed for
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks,
Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
--
Daniel
Just a restoration.
Including parts destroyed by the Master (Logopolis)?
Indeed, yes.
--
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Timothy Bruening
2018-04-13 02:19:53 UTC
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Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks, Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
Thaleks?
The Doctor
2018-04-13 03:09:10 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Good performances all round. In the end more of a Douglas Adams Hitchhikers
plot than a Doctor Who plot.
New let's make sense of it, after the big reset button has been pressed for
the umpteenth time.
When the Doctor rebooted the universe, why didn't he delete Daleks,
Cybermen, & Sontarans?
Post by Daniel60
Because the writers would have to come up with a whole fleet of new
arch-enemies, Tim.
Thaleks?
No.
--
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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Do the thing we fear, and death of fear is certain. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-25 05:38:05 UTC
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Did the Doctor's reboot of the universe also reboot the CVEs used by Logopolis to keep universe alive?
The Doctor
2018-04-25 14:37:59 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Did the Doctor's reboot of the universe also reboot the CVEs used by
Logopolis to keep universe alive?
I would say Yes.
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Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Put more trust in nobility of character than in an oath. -Solon
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