Discussion:
S08E07 Kill the Moon
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Agamemnon
2014-10-04 21:58:46 UTC
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I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.

New companion... don't like her.

-1 point.

The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".

-1 point.

So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?

-1 point

Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?

-1 point

The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?

Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being 100
million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped out the
Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of exactly the
same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than about 100
million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even bigger hole
when you're in one already?

+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity

Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later) as
any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have been
able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.

-1 point

And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the one
that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.

-1 point

Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.

-1 point

How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter and
presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch out of
a shell the diameter as the moon?

-1 point

Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.

-1 point

The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all the
morons that were populating Earth had decided.

Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give advice
on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the stupids?

Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.

Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in daylight,
therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth from the moon in
darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial lights illuminating it.

-1 point

How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where there
is no atmosphere to fly in?

-1 point

Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out of
the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the outside
was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode then despite what
we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it should have actually worked
since there was air inside the bottle from when it was last used and more
than enough pressure for it to force the liquid out given the vacuum it was
forced out into, though it would have come out all at once and had a large
recoil too.

+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for ignoring
the air pressure in the bottle

What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't hatched
yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?

-1 point

At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.

+1 point

And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.

+1 point

Which gives a grand total of

0/10

Worst Moffat era episode ever.

Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
The Doctor
2014-10-04 22:18:09 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being 100
million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped out the
Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of exactly the
same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than about 100
million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even bigger hole
when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later) as
any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have been
able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the one
that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter and
presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch out of
a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all the
morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give advice
on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in daylight,
therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth from the moon in
darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where there
is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out of
the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the outside
was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode then despite what
we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it should have actually worked
since there was air inside the bottle from when it was last used and more
than enough pressure for it to force the liquid out given the vacuum it was
forced out into, though it would have come out all at once and had a large
recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for ignoring
the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't hatched
yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
2 bombs.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Truth is a gaffe to liars. -unknown
Andrew M
2014-10-04 22:43:02 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to
the moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle
carrying 100 nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made
explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being
100 million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and
wiped out the Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up
out of exactly the same rock as the earth and came into existence no
more than about 100 million after the solar system was formed. So why
dig an even bigger hole when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the
moon doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out
in the actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say
about later) as any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is
it?) would have been able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep
under ground they couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of
rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes
available today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I
mean the egg shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any
better than just letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it
just hatch? Both event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the
earth larger than the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean
Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical
matter, not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never
explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter
and presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just
hatch out of a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all
the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give
advice on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the
stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in
daylight, therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth
from the moon in darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial
lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where
there is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken
out of the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but
the outside was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode
then despite what we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it
should have actually worked since there was air inside the bottle from
when it was last used and more than enough pressure for it to force the
liquid out given the vacuum it was forced out into, though it would
have come out all at once and had a large recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for
ignoring the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched
it. For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring
of the gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had
evolved to live off that creature.

As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
her too hard - that follows from the conversation between her and Danny
Pink at the end of the last episode. She also didn't appreciate the
fact that he didn't just insist that it was her decision, but actually
left her.

I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
The Doctor
2014-10-04 22:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Andrew M
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to
the moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle
carrying 100 nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made
explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being
100 million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and
wiped out the Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up
out of exactly the same rock as the earth and came into existence no
more than about 100 million after the solar system was formed. So why
dig an even bigger hole when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the
moon doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out
in the actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say
about later) as any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is
it?) would have been able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep
under ground they couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of
rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes
available today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I
mean the egg shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any
better than just letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it
just hatch? Both event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the
earth larger than the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean
Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical
matter, not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never
explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter
and presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just
hatch out of a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all
the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give
advice on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the
stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in
daylight, therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth
from the moon in darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial
lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where
there is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken
out of the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but
the outside was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode
then despite what we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it
should have actually worked since there was air inside the bottle from
when it was last used and more than enough pressure for it to force the
liquid out given the vacuum it was forced out into, though it would
have come out all at once and had a large recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for
ignoring the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched
it. For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring
of the gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had
evolved to live off that creature.
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
her too hard - that follows from the conversation between her and Danny
Pink at the end of the last episode. She also didn't appreciate the
fact that he didn't just insist that it was her decision, but actually
left her.
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
1 Rock 2 bombs.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Truth is a gaffe to liars. -unknown
Agamemnon
2014-10-05 00:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to
the moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying
100 nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being
100 million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped
out the Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of
exactly the same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than
about 100 million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even
bigger hole when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later)
as any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have
been able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the
one that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical
matter, not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never
explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter
and presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch
out of a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all
the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give
advice on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the
stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in
daylight, therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth
from the moon in darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial
lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where
there is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out
of the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the
outside was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode then
despite what we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it should have
actually worked since there was air inside the bottle from when it was
last used and more than enough pressure for it to force the liquid out
given the vacuum it was forced out into, though it would have come out
all at once and had a large recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for ignoring
the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.

Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode. Otherwise why didn't the astronauts that were sent to the moon over
40 years ago spot them?

1/10

Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2 points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from Star
Trek The Next Generation.
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
He placed her in a position where she would be committing suicide as well as
murder and the earth would also have been destroyed by the debris. It was a
no brainer.
her too hard - that follows from the conversation between her and Danny
Pink at the end of the last episode. She also didn't appreciate the fact
that he didn't just insist that it was her decision, but actually left
her.
Moffat's trying to redo the 6th Doctor and looks where that got the series
last time.

This series has already been censored 3 times and been moved to the latest
time slot ever.

What's worse the plot for the series so for has had the Doctor waiting
outside the window of a children's home and breaking into one of the
children's rooms, then getting a job as a school caretaker and taking a 15
year old girl from that school for a ride in his car, I mean TARDIS,
potentially leading to her death.

I cannot understand how the morons running the BBC let these parallels to
real life crimes pass and yet they censored a robot having it's head knocked
off it's block.
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
p***@conservation.org
2014-10-05 02:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to
the moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying
100 nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being
100 million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped
out the Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of
exactly the same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than
about 100 million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even
bigger hole when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later)
as any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have
been able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the
one that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical
matter, not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never
explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter
and presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch
out of a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all
the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give
advice on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the
stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in
daylight, therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth
from the moon in darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial
lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where
there is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out
of the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the
outside was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode then
despite what we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it should have
actually worked since there was air inside the bottle from when it was
last used and more than enough pressure for it to force the liquid out
given the vacuum it was forced out into, though it would have come out
all at once and had a large recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for ignoring
the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode.
It was explained in the episode, and was the entire point of the anti-bacterial spray working on it. Plus the flying soup dragon didn't look anything like the germs. That's fairly clear signposting.
Post by Agamemnon
Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2 points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from Star
Trek The Next Generation.
And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...
Post by Agamemnon
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
He placed her in a position where she would be committing suicide as well as
murder and the earth would also have been destroyed by the debris. It was a
no brainer.
It was a no brainer mostly because they spent all that time anguishing over a pointless decision - option 1: moon explodes, debris may or may not pummel Earth, damaging tides go away and Earth is saved unless the flying soup dragon decides to eat it. Option 2: blow up the moon, so that ... moon explodes, debris may or may not pummel Earth, damaging tides go away, Earth may or may not have the corpse of a dead soup dragon fall on it.
Post by Agamemnon
What's worse the plot for the series so for has had the Doctor waiting
outside the window of a children's home and breaking into one of the
children's rooms, then getting a job as a school caretaker and taking a 15
year old girl from that school for a ride in his car, I mean TARDIS,
potentially leading to her death.
This is the BBC, Aggy. Where could young children possibly be safer than with aged male celebrities on the Beeb?
Post by Agamemnon
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
About 50-60% of a nuclear surface explosion's energy goes into the blast, and in an atmosphere that just dissipates through the atmosphere and causes damage to superficial surface features. It doesn't direct any of the energy back into the rock; a surface explosion will cause mostly surface damage regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
Agamemnon
2014-10-05 03:03:56 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by Agamemnon
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode.
<<<It was explained in the episode, and was the entire point of the
anti-bacterial spray working on it. Plus the flying soup dragon didn't look
anything like the germs. That's fairly clear signposting.>>>

Well it was all so idiotic and unbelievable that I lost all interest in the
nonsense that was being said about them.
Post by Agamemnon
Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2 points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from Star
Trek The Next Generation.
<<<And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...>>>

Not seen that one so I can't deduct any more points. I heard it got really
bad reviews.
Post by Agamemnon
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
He placed her in a position where she would be committing suicide as well as
murder and the earth would also have been destroyed by the debris. It was a
no brainer.
<<<It was a no brainer mostly because they spent all that time anguishing
over a pointless decision - option 1: moon explodes, debris may or may not
pummel Earth, damaging tides go away and Earth is saved unless the flying
soup dragon decides to eat it. Option 2: blow up the moon, so that ... moon
explodes, debris may or may not pummel Earth, damaging tides go away, Earth
may or may not have the corpse of a dead soup dragon fall on it.>>>

Yes, exactly.
Post by Agamemnon
What's worse the plot for the series so for has had the Doctor waiting
outside the window of a children's home and breaking into one of the
children's rooms, then getting a job as a school caretaker and taking a 15
year old girl from that school for a ride in his car, I mean TARDIS,
potentially leading to her death.
<<<This is the BBC, Aggy. Where could young children possibly be safer than
with aged male celebrities on the Beeb?>>>

Well obviously.
Post by Agamemnon
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
<<<About 50-60% of a nuclear surface explosion's energy goes into the blast,
and in an atmosphere that just dissipates through the atmosphere and causes
damage to superficial surface features. It doesn't direct any of the energy
back into the rock; a surface explosion will cause mostly surface damage
regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.>>>

True. I was just trying to point out that a nuclear weapon just like any
other explosive device, needs something to direct the explosion inwards
towards the moon and it didn't even have an atmosphere let alone any rock
behind it to do that job. And even if they were buried inside the moon they
still wouldn't have been able to blow it apart.
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 12:29:46 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
<<<And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...>>>
Not seen that one so I can't deduct any more points. I heard it got really
bad reviews.
You don't remember Samuel Jackson's famous line? 'I've had enough of these *
spiders on the * Apollo capsule.'
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
p***@conservation.org
2014-10-05 21:01:41 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Andrew M
Post by Agamemnon
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched
it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode.
<<<It was explained in the episode, and was the entire point of the
anti-bacterial spray working on it. Plus the flying soup dragon didn't look
anything like the germs. That's fairly clear signposting.>>>
Well it was all so idiotic and unbelievable that I lost all interest in the
nonsense that was being said about them.
Post by Agamemnon
Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2
points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from
Star
Trek The Next Generation.
<<<And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...>>>
Not seen that one so I can't deduct any more points. I heard it got really
bad reviews.
Justifiably so. While watching the episode I was internally debating whether it was, in fact, better than Apollo 13 or not (and indeed whether it had fewer plot flaws).
Tim Bruening
2016-11-22 23:21:42 UTC
Permalink
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Post by p***@conservation.org
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Andrew M
Post by Agamemnon
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched
it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode.
<<<It was explained in the episode, and was the entire point of the
anti-bacterial spray working on it. Plus the flying soup dragon didn't look
anything like the germs. That's fairly clear signposting.>>>
Well it was all so idiotic and unbelievable that I lost all interest in the
nonsense that was being said about them.
Post by Agamemnon
Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2
points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from
Star
Trek The Next Generation.
<<<And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...>>>
Not seen that one so I can't deduct any more points. I heard it got really
bad reviews.
Justifiably so. While watching the episode I was internally debating whether it was, in fact, better than Apollo 13 or not (and indeed whether it had fewer plot flaws).
What plot flaws did Apollo 13 have?
Tim Bruening
2017-01-12 08:08:48 UTC
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Post by p***@conservation.org
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to
the moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying
100 nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being
100 million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped
out the Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of
exactly the same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than
about 100 million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even
bigger hole when you're in one already?
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later)
as any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have
been able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
-1 point
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the
one that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
-1 point
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical
matter, not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never
explained.
-1 point
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter
and presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch
out of a shell the diameter as the moon?
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the same
thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of what all
the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give
advice on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the
stupids?
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in
daylight, therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth
from the moon in darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial
lights illuminating it.
-1 point
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where
there is no atmosphere to fly in?
-1 point
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out
of the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the
outside was a vacuum? Assuming it was strong enough not to explode then
despite what we saw and the 'explanation in the dialogue, it should have
actually worked since there was air inside the bottle from when it was
last used and more than enough pressure for it to force the liquid out
given the vacuum it was forced out into, though it would have come out
all at once and had a large recoil too.
+1 point for referring to the existence of a vacuum -1 point for ignoring
the air pressure in the bottle
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't
hatched yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
-1 point
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
+1 point
And we got to see Tom Baker's yoyo.
+1 point
Which gives a grand total of
0/10
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
Hopefully next week's episode will be better. It won't take much.
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode.
It was explained in the episode, and was the entire point of the anti-bacterial spray working on it. Plus the flying soup dragon didn't look anything like the germs. That's fairly clear signposting.
Post by Agamemnon
Still the worst Moffat era episode ever even if I give it an extra 2 points
for recreating the moonscape and re-using David Tennant's space suit from
42. But then again I should take another 2 points away for copying the
sentient celestial body idea from 42 and the pregnant space whale from Star
Trek The Next Generation.
And the 'moon infested by alien spiders' from Apollo 13...
Post by Agamemnon
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
He placed her in a position where she would be committing suicide as well as
murder and the earth would also have been destroyed by the debris. It was a
no brainer.
It was a no brainer mostly because they spent all that time anguishing over a pointless decision - option 1: moon explodes, debris may or may not pummel Earth, damaging tides go away and Earth is saved unless the flying soup dragon decides to eat it. Option 2: blow up the moon, so that ... moon explodes, debris may or may not pummel Earth, damaging tides go away, Earth may or may not have the corpse of a dead soup dragon fall on it.
I think that it was thought that the bombs would kill the fetus without exploding the Moon, thus preventing the fetus from hatching and pummeling Earth with debris.
Mike Hall
2014-10-05 10:50:21 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
What's worse the plot for the series so for has had the Doctor waiting
outside the window of a children's home and breaking into one of the
children's rooms, then getting a job as a school caretaker and taking a 15
year old girl from that school for a ride in his car, I mean TARDIS,
potentially leading to her death.
I cannot understand how the morons running the BBC let these parallels to
real life crimes pass and yet they censored a robot having it's head knocked
off it's block.
Probably this is why they used a student who looked nothing like the
poor Soham girls, which is the first thing I thought of when I heard of
the Doctor tricking his way into a school caretaker job. Still, it is
very creepy how in the Moffat era all the men in any sort of uniform die
very quickly leaving the Doctor and his harem to save the day.


Mike Hall
Agamemnon
2014-10-05 17:30:48 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
What's worse the plot for the series so for has had the Doctor waiting
outside the window of a children's home and breaking into one of the
children's rooms, then getting a job as a school caretaker and taking a 15
year old girl from that school for a ride in his car, I mean TARDIS,
potentially leading to her death.
I cannot understand how the morons running the BBC let these parallels to
real life crimes pass and yet they censored a robot having it's head knocked
off it's block.
Probably this is why they used a student who looked nothing like the poor
Soham girls, which is the first thing I thought of when I heard of the
Doctor tricking his way into a school caretaker job.
Irrespective of that, what message do you think this is giving out to kids
when their parents keep telling them not to talk to strangers or take gifts
from them or step into their cars?

No wonder the show's been moved to either side of the watershed.

But then again this is the organisation which nurtured Jimmy Seville,
Stewart Hall, Dave Lee Travis and Rolf Harris.
Still, it is very creepy how in the Moffat era all the men in any sort of
uniform die very quickly leaving the Doctor and his harem to save the day.
Mike Hall
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 18:35:32 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Irrespective of that, what message do you think this is giving out to kids
when their parents keep telling them not to talk to strangers or take gifts
from them or step into their cars?
When children go to school, teachers are made responsible, their duty of care as
Clara puts it. Children are not expected to understand the world enough to make
all their decisions for themselves, and so it becomes the responsibility of
adults to do that for them.

In principle any adult finding themselves with unsupervised company of children
has a duty of care for them. In an ideal world children would be as safe with
strange adults, even getting into cars, because the adults should take on a duty
of care. Societies have a special anger for child abusers and rapists because
these adults have violated the basic social responsibility of caring for the
children.

It's not just adults and children, but adults can have responsibility of care
for other adults, such as the ill or mentally incompetent. JRR Tolkien in the
Homecoming Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's Son argued that military commanders have a
duty of care for their soldiers placed under their command. Societies also scorn
those adults who fail their responsibility for other adults.

Clara freaks out when the Doctor takes Obnoxious Girl in the Tardis because
Clara knows that it is dangerous, and as a teacher Clara is responsible for
managing risks faced by students. Clara then has a duty of care for the entire
biosphere thrust on her by the Doctor.

So what about the Doctor? Does he have a duty of care to Obnoxious Girl? And
does he have a duty of care to Clara? Was his departure mid-episode a failure of
care? Danny as a soldier was under the care of his officers--did they violate
that duty? Was Danny justified in leaving the army? Is he justified to see the
Doctor repeating that failure to Clara?

(In the Caretaker, the Doctor is wrathful that Danny interfered in his scheme.
However Danny was responsible for the students in the school, and he was doing
his duty as best he could. Did the Doctor feel a duty of care to the students?
To London? Should the Doctor assume that other adults must trust his actions
with no explanation? What his responsibility to them, and they to him?)


The story itself was poorly written to advance these ideas which is why Clara's
rant at the end might be unexpected. Instead of mummy spiders, moon eggs, action
beats, and the rest, I think a more effective story would be smaller, involving
primarily Obnoxious Girl, Clara, the Doctor, and Danny, as their various
responsibilities and nonresponsilities for each pther are tested and
demonstrated to develop parallels and antiparallels.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
Jack Bohn
2014-10-05 18:09:23 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
It gets worse. As was pointed out by people smartr than me in rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 back last century when its hero took two nuclear bombs on a kamikaze mission: one would explode first, it would vaporize the other(s); one X-megaton bomb = an X-megaton explosion, two X-megaton bombs = an X-megaton explosion, 100 X-megaton bombs = an X-megaton explosion.

I don't like to nitpick, but this episode showed an almost fractal-like pattern of mistakes inside mistakes.

When they first come out into the shuttle, they mention the gravity being normal, we later find out the shuttle has been in free-fall to the Moon. Extra Moonmass or no, they should have been in freefall then.
At one point the astronaut mentions "high tide everywhere at once," which is not how tides work, even with new Moonmass, and raises the simple question of where the extra water would have come from. I can believe an alien egg/embryo shunting in mass from another dimension because I read comicbooks, but high tide *everywhere* *at the same time*?

At least the Moon was close enough to correct phase for being seen in the daylight ...if for some unknown reason the dark side was merely dim and still visible. The scale of the creature is not highlighted, but at the size and pace of TV, motion of its components at single digit and even low double digit miles per second would be imperceptible. I could have done without synchronized sound, too.
--
-Jack
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 18:57:41 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
It gets worse. As was pointed out by people smartr than me in
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 back last century when its hero took two nuclear
bombs on a kamikaze mission: one would explode first, it would vaporize the
other(s); one X-megaton bomb = an X-megaton explosion, two X-megaton bombs =
an X-megaton explosion, 100 X-megaton bombs = an X-megaton explosion.
That would be true of the fission cores: only one would detonate and the rest
evaporate before they could detonate. However the fusion cores depend on a large
xray flux: if they are close enough I suspect one fission core could detonate
multiple fusion cores which could detonate more and more and more as long as
their close enough to get enough xrays before the blast disperses them.

Fission produces xrays and neutrons, but the fission is propagated by neutrons
which will always be slower. That means some the core can be boiled off as gas
before the neutrons reach them. Fusion is propagated by xrays so if the material
is properly arranged, they're unlimited. The current limitation is because if
the fireball extends above the stratosphere, that energy is just radiated to
space with no military signficant.
Post by Jack Bohn
where the extra water would have come from. I can believe an alien
egg/embryo shunting in mass from another dimension because I read comicbooks,
but high tide *everywhere* *at the same time*?
Terrestrial egg shells allow gasses to diffuse, especially oxygen in and carbon
dioxide out. If an egg laying animal ever acquires the genes to fix nitrogen
into amino acids, the embryo could increase its protein mass from the
surrounding atmosphere. The moon does have a thin atmosphere and receives helium
and other nuclei from the sun.

I missed the bit about high tides everywhere. Increased moon mass would move the
barycenter, so humans might become seasick,
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
Charles E. Hardwidge
2014-10-05 22:10:52 UTC
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Post by Siri Crews
The current limitation is because if
the fireball extends above the stratosphere, that energy is just radiated to
space with no military signficant.
The military aren't much into art are they?
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
TB
2015-05-09 19:08:13 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Agamemnon
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode. Otherwise why didn't the astronauts that were sent to the moon over
40 years ago spot them?
They weren't LOOKING for spiders!
Post by Agamemnon
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
I expect that an embryo would have been more fragile than an actual Moon.
Siri Cruz
2015-05-09 19:12:24 UTC
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Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I disagree with a lot of this, and will write more when I've rewatched it.
For the moment, just one point. The spiders weren't the offspring of the
gestating creature. They were analogues of microbes that had evolved to
live off that creature.
Ok.
Maybe it should have been explained to make it clearer in the actual
episode. Otherwise why didn't the astronauts that were sent to the moon over
40 years ago spot them?
They weren't LOOKING for spiders!
They dealing with Autobot wreckage.
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
A surface or subsurface explosion will send energy into solid matter.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
That's People's Commissioner Siri Cruz now. Punch!
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-05 03:39:16 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by Andrew M
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
Place bombs underground.
The Doctor
2018-03-05 05:58:31 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
Post by Andrew M
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
Because without an atmosphere apart from the casing of the bombs and the
shuttle they were in there would be nothing that would have directed the
force of the explosion inwards. All that would have been created was
enormous amounts of heat and almost all of that would have been directed
into outer space.
Place bombs underground.
As in within the shell.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
To make pleasures pleasant, shorten them. -Charles Buxton
Charles E. Hardwidge
2014-10-05 02:05:49 UTC
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Post by Andrew M
Post by Agamemnon
-1 point
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was
completely unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
-1 point
The Doctor left her alone to make her own decision and she did the
same thing I would have done, aborted the countdown irrespective of
what all the morons that were populating Earth had decided.
As to why Clara was so angry - I think there are several things. The
Doctor had placed her in a position where she might be responsible for
destroying the Earth if she made the wrong choice. In a sense he pushed
her too hard - that follows from the conversation between her and Danny
Pink at the end of the last episode. She also didn't appreciate the fact
that he didn't just insist that it was her decision, but actually left her.
I haven't watched the show so this is a comment on comments...

This gets somewhat complex as you need at least a basic understanding
gender studies and history and modern feminism... Some understanding of
psychology and sociology and systems theory helps... I may also be
reading more into the show than was intended...

There's been a big issue within feminism over the past few years about
women being their own critical actors. The problem is that women as a
whole lack the basic culture and history of self-assertion men have. As
women's psychology operates more at a ranking than rating level i.e.
women weigh their friends opinions not abstract like men so the overall
market for women's psycho-social development moves more like evolution
than revolution.

Books like 'Lean In' etc are potboliers saying nothing which hasn't been
written a zillion times by men but nonetheless important. They help
address the Catch-22 of individuals asserting themselves versus group
identity. There's a fulcrum point between women needing protecting from
men and women owning the problem. (This is somewhat balanced by ritually
psychopathic men crashing the economy and not giving two hoots for who
picks up the bill. Too much testosterone in one place can be as
unhelpful as too much oestrogen in one place.)

Back when people actually listened to my comments on the games industry
the games industry had a real problem knowing how to accommodate women.
(This general question also arose in feminist literature.) I thought
people were worrying this too much - it was a fundamental market forces
issue. The big game publishers then backed off and generally speaking
just accommodated women i.e. employing capable game developers and
allowing women gamers to articulate what they wanted. fast forward a
decade and we are where we are - as predicted. Now women are engaged we
have different levels and types of discussion such as the book 'Lean In'
and philosophical questions being asked by drama such as the Doctor Who
scene you described.

Much like the absurd silo mentality which existed between the game and
movie industries with each side seemingly unaware of and reinventing the
wheel the game and movie industries today are much more integrated:
movies now use game engine style technology to render scenes and the
games industry uses professional voice actors etc. Likewise, the social
issue portrayed in the Doctor Who scene you described is an old
philosophical question well travelled in Eastern mysticism and martial
arts. It is not new and, shock horror, both men and women practice
martial arts as well as reading and writing philosophy and narrative.

This may all be somewhat obvious. I daresay it is now and certainly more
obviously obvious than only a decade ago. As cynical and depressing as
the world can be at times I generally think this generational cultural
shift has its pluses.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 12:24:55 UTC
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Post by Andrew M
I'm not sure what difference you think the lack of an atmosphere would
have on the efficacy of a nuclear explosion.
In an above ground explosion, it's the air that converts X-rays to lower
frequencies like light and heat, and it's the air that transmit a compression
wave and rest of the heat not transmitted by radiation. On the moon, the X-rays
would've heated the ground below the explosion and not much more.

Below ground all the energy is used up expanding the rock which would send a
compression wave throughout the region.

Neither of which would do much to a moon or even a moon sized animal, unless it
destroyed a critical piece of anatomy, like severring the spine above the heart
or lung nerves on veterbrates.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
p***@conservation.org
2014-10-05 01:56:09 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
I have to give it some credit here: the moment after I thought "they're really sending astronauts this dim on a mission to the moon?" the script had the leader describe them as 'third-rate astronauts', so at least the writer realised it was stupid.
Post by Agamemnon
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?
It didn't wipe out the Silurians, they went into hibernation out of fear that it would.
Post by Agamemnon
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being 100
million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped out the
Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of exactly the
same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than about 100
million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even bigger hole
when you're in one already?
Why, after being caught out by the name Silurians for a group of reptiles, would they rename them Eocenes only to show them with pet dinosaurs?

The moon's also known to have minerals (and, incidentally, probably water).
Post by Agamemnon
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later) as
any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have been
able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
Having an atmosphere is irrelevant. That increases blast damage, but damage from the blast of a nuclear weapon is limited to surface features - buildings were destroyed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the underlying rock wasn't.

In the episode, the bombs were in the shuttle that had fallen through one of the cracks in the crust (um, shell), so they may have been deep enough to damage the organism as we're told the shell wasn't as thick as rock.

And Dr Who has implausibly powerful nuclear weapons - wasn't it in the Davros two-partner that something like a dozen nuclear weapons in the Earth's crust were supposed to be able to destroy the planet? Following precedent set as early as The Dalek Invasion of Earth, when a single nuclear bomb dropped into the core would supposedly have had the same effect.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.
As Iggy suggests, I think Moffatt misunderstood how growth works and imagined that the hatchling in the eggshell was putting on massive amounts of mass as it grows. This of course isn't the case because the egg is self-contained - there's no external input of mass from food as there is for a mammal growing inside a mother, since all the mass of the hatchling's food is stored within the egg.
Post by Agamemnon
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
That was actually the best bit of the episode.
Post by Agamemnon
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in daylight,
therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth from the moon in
darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial lights illuminating it.
She saw Europe and North America - it would have been daylight in plenty of other places.
Post by Agamemnon
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out of
the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the outside
was a vacuum?
Maybe the moon acquired an atmosphere along with all the extra mass.
Post by Agamemnon
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't hatched
yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
They weren't its young, they were supposed to be bacterial germs colonising it. Which is why the organism turned out to be a soup dragon that didn't resemble the 'spiders' at all.
Post by Agamemnon
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
There have been worse just in this season. This episode was preposterous in concept, but for what it was it was fairly well-executed. Mainly it was a wasted opportunity.
Charles E. Hardwidge
2014-10-05 02:18:01 UTC
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Post by p***@conservation.org
Post by Agamemnon
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
That was actually the best bit of the episode.
I haven't watched the show but wondered if it was... From what I've read
the rest of the show sounds like the inside the mind of a psychotic
brain damaged five year old. I do wonder if Moffat isn't beginning to
crack up under the stress.
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
Agamemnon
2014-10-05 03:44:25 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
<<<I have to give it some credit here: the moment after I thought "they're
really sending astronauts this dim on a mission to the moon?" the script had
the leader describe them as 'third-rate astronauts', so at least the writer
realised it was stupid.>>>

Even third rate astronauts would have been trained to operate the bombs they
were sent there to plant. Clearly the management of the company were more
incompetent than the astronauts.
Post by Agamemnon
-1 point
The moon is a 100 million year old egg, the egg that wiped out the
Silurians?
<<<It didn't wipe out the Silurians, they went into hibernation out of fear
that it would.>>>

That's what I meant.
Post by Agamemnon
Obviously they were trying to keep continuity with the moon only being 100
million years old from the time it came into earth's orbit and wiped out the
Silurians, despite modern science telling us it's made up out of exactly the
same rock as the earth and came into existence no more than about 100
million after the solar system was formed. So why dig an even bigger hole
when you're in one already?
<<<Why, after being caught out by the name Silurians for a group of
reptiles, would they rename them Eocenes only to show them with pet
dinosaurs?

The moon's also known to have minerals (and, incidentally, probably
water).>>>
Post by Agamemnon
+1 point for continuity -1 point for stupidity
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later) as
any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have been
able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
<<<Having an atmosphere is irrelevant. That increases blast damage, but
damage from the blast of a nuclear weapon is limited to surface features -
buildings were destroyed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the underlying rock
wasn't.

In the episode, the bombs were in the shuttle that had fallen through one of
the cracks in the crust (um, shell), so they may have been deep enough to
damage the organism as we're told the shell wasn't as thick as rock.>>>

Given that it had more mass than the moon any damage caused by the heat,
since there was no atmosphere inside the shell that would be blasted, would
have been minimal. No more than a superficial burn.

<<<And Dr Who has implausibly powerful nuclear weapons - wasn't it in the
Davros two-partner that something like a dozen nuclear weapons in the
Earth's crust were supposed to be able to destroy the planet? Following
precedent set as early as The Dalek Invasion of Earth, when a single nuclear
bomb dropped into the core would supposedly have had the same effect.>>>

Those would be Dalek nuclear bombs. We're talking about mid 21st century
nukes provided by a private company. It's doubtful they could have even
detonated properly and been more than dirty bombs obtained by terrorists.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.
<<<As Iggy suggests, I think Moffatt misunderstood how growth works and
imagined that the hatchling in the eggshell was putting on massive amounts
of mass as it grows. This of course isn't the case because the egg is
self-contained - there's no external input of mass from food as there is for
a mammal growing inside a mother, since all the mass of the hatchling's food
is stored within the egg.>>>

Then someone should have pointed it out to him. But he probably ignored them
as usual. When was the last time someone reported their chicken's laying
eggs which became heavier and heavier.
Post by Agamemnon
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
<<<That was actually the best bit of the episode.>>>

Well it was less entirely unbelievable than the rest of the episode at
least.
Post by Agamemnon
Why did Clara even need to make a public broadcast, and only half the
world's population, the moronic half obviously, would have been able to
signal anyway, when it was obvious their actions would have been futile
either way.
Worse than that, when the moon hatched it was sheen from Earth in daylight,
therefore Clara could have not have possibly seen the Earth from the moon in
darkness a few minutes earlier with only artificial lights illuminating it.
<<<She saw Europe and North America - it would have been daylight in plenty
of other places.>>>

She saw Europe and North America and half the planet at night therefore half
the planet must have seen the moon at night or after the sun had set and
before it had risen, not in broad daylight.
Post by Agamemnon
Why didn't the container of anti-germ spray explode when it was taken out of
the dwelling module since there was air inside the bottle but the outside
was a vacuum?
<<<Maybe the moon acquired an atmosphere along with all the extra mass.>>>

So why were they wearing helmets and breathing apparatus on the surface?

And what was the purpose of the spiders' webs? What were they supposed to be
catching?
Post by Agamemnon
What were all the baby spiders doing there when their mother hadn't hatched
yet? What did they hatch from and what was their purpose?
<<<They weren't its young, they were supposed to be bacterial germs
colonising it. Which is why the organism turned out to be a soup dragon that
didn't resemble the 'spiders' at all.>>>
Post by Agamemnon
Worst Moffat era episode ever.
<<<There have been worse just in this season. This episode was preposterous
in >>>

Don't agree.

<<<This episode was preposterous in concept, but for what it was it was
fairly well-executed. Mainly it was a wasted opportunity.>>

Moffat deliberately went OTT with everything. The egg being the entire moon,
and not just a creature buried deep inside it. Obviously he was copying RTDs
Runaway Bride idea thinking he could do better. Then the nonsense about the
increased mass when just the astronauts on the base being killed by alien
creatures would have sufficed along with some seismic image of something
even bigger lurking inside the moon. And the nonsense with the nuclear bombs
shattering the entire moon as well, when just one large asteroid would have
been enough to destroy all life on earth.
Mark F
2014-10-05 12:04:32 UTC
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<***@conservation.org> wrote in message news:54636259-d9fd-418b-ada3-***@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:58:46 PM UTC-4, Agamemnon wrote:
(+ and - points about plot and technical consistency)

The Doctor talks about "1.6 billion tons" being added to the
mass of the moon

Assuming actually said "tonnes" and is using the British
"billion" of 1E12, rather than the American 1E9, we have:
1.6E12 tonnes *1E3 kilograms/tonne = 1.6E15.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/moonfact.html

So 1.6E15/7.3E22 is about 1/4 E-7. Would anyone notice
a difference of less than 1 part in 10 million?

To get the gravity right the mass would have to more than triple
(I assume that they could tell 0.5G from 1G, but not notice
the difference between 0.7G and 1G)
Charles E. Hardwidge
2014-10-05 12:16:30 UTC
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Post by Mark F
(+ and - points about plot and technical consistency)
The Doctor talks about "1.6 billion tons" being added to the
mass of the moon
Assuming actually said "tonnes" and is using the British
1.6E12 tonnes *1E3 kilograms/tonne = 1.6E15.
I wish people would stop confusing the issue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
The Doctor
2014-10-05 12:53:41 UTC
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Post by Charles E. Hardwidge
Post by Mark F
(+ and - points about plot and technical consistency)
The Doctor talks about "1.6 billion tons" being added to the
mass of the moon
Assuming actually said "tonnes" and is using the British
1.6E12 tonnes *1E3 kilograms/tonne = 1.6E15.
I wish people would stop confusing the issue!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
--
Charles E. Hardwidge
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Truth is a gaffe to liars. -unknown
solar penguin
2014-10-05 23:05:13 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and can be
both rational and irrational...
The Doctor
2014-10-05 23:20:04 UTC
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Post by solar penguin
Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and can be
both rational and irrational...
Mostly irrational.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Truth is a gaffe to liars. -unknown
Daniel60
2018-07-06 13:19:50 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by solar penguin
Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and can be
both rational and irrational...
Mostly irrational.
Is it too complex for you to understand, idiot??
--
Daniel
The Doctor
2018-07-06 14:40:51 UTC
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Post by Daniel60
Post by The Doctor
Post by solar penguin
Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and can be
both rational and irrational...
Mostly irrational.
Is it too complex for you to understand, idiot??
--
Daniel
PI in your face.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Let no man pull you low enough to hate him. -Martin Luther King Jr.
Daniel60
2018-07-07 12:49:25 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Daniel60
Post by The Doctor
Post by solar penguin
Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and
can be both rational and irrational...
Mostly irrational.
Is it too complex for you to understand, idiot??
PI in your face.
Why, idiot?? You don't understand something so you go around committing
violent assault on people!
--
Daniel
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 23:43:28 UTC
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Post by solar penguin
Post by The Doctor
Metric is not a real system of measurement.
It's real in the sense that it isn't imaginary or complex, and can be
both rational and irrational...
It is only real if it contains the limit of every Cauchy sequence.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
p***@conservation.org
2014-10-05 21:08:46 UTC
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Post by Mark F
(+ and - points about plot and technical consistency)
The Doctor talks about "1.6 billion tons" being added to the
mass of the moon
Assuming actually said "tonnes" and is using the British
1.6E12 tonnes *1E3 kilograms/tonne = 1.6E15.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/moonfact.html
So 1.6E15/7.3E22 is about 1/4 E-7. Would anyone notice
a difference of less than 1 part in 10 million?
To get the gravity right the mass would have to more than triple
(I assume that they could tell 0.5G from 1G, but not notice
the difference between 0.7G and 1G)
I think Moffatt picks numbers pretty much at random - he also describes NASA as being 'about 2,500 miles away', but as Aggy notes there isn't anywhere that close to North America that would be fully in daytime while Florida was still in the dark.
The Doctor
2014-10-05 22:38:58 UTC
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Post by p***@conservation.org
Post by Mark F
(+ and - points about plot and technical consistency)
The Doctor talks about "1.6 billion tons" being added to the
mass of the moon
Assuming actually said "tonnes" and is using the British
1.6E12 tonnes *1E3 kilograms/tonne = 1.6E15.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/moonfact.html
So 1.6E15/7.3E22 is about 1/4 E-7. Would anyone notice
a difference of less than 1 part in 10 million?
To get the gravity right the mass would have to more than triple
(I assume that they could tell 0.5G from 1G, but not notice
the difference between 0.7G and 1G)
I think Moffatt picks numbers pretty much at random - he also describes NASA as being 'about 2,500 miles away', but as Aggy notes there isn't anywhere that close to North America that would be fully in daytime while Florida was still in the dark.
Where in the world did she end up?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Truth is a gaffe to liars. -unknown
Siri Crews
2014-10-05 12:05:56 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
New companion... don't like her.
But...but...she's a future president. Show some respect for your betters, the
USA! USA! USA! (Why does that remind me of a babboon troop?)
Post by Agamemnon
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
A space shuttle couldn't get there: it's too heavy for any rocket to be built.

Overall the episode assumes that with NASA out of the low earth orbit
transportation business, NASA is shutting down. And therefore China, India,
Europe, and everyone else is shutting down.
Post by Agamemnon
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
and one evening in walks Dinsdale with a couple of big
lads, one of whom was carrying a tactical nuclear missile.
They said I had bought one of their fruit machines and
would I pay for it.
Post by Agamemnon
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
Are you really telling me Bruce Willis (USA! USA! USA!) gave up his life for
nothing blowing up that asteroid?

Also: Loading Image...
Post by Agamemnon
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
The mummy spiders were parasites in the egg shell, not the creature within.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.
Isn't it obvious? From its yolk sac.
Post by Agamemnon
How could the mummy spider be pregnant with something the same diameter and
presumably mass as the moon if she'd only a minute earlier just hatch out of
a shell the diameter as the moon?
It's bigger on the inside than the outside.
Post by Agamemnon
Why was Clara so upset? The entire closing rant at the Doctor was completely
unbelievable and I had no sympathy for her.
The point of the episode was not the moon or eggs or space flight but to create
this conflict: Clara transitionned for adoring acolyte to a wrestler of angels
by the Jabbok. This is implied to parallel the still unspecified conflict that
drove Danny Pink out of the army.

Clara thinks the Doctor deliberately withheld vital information just so he could
watch the monkeys dance for his amusement. The Doctor claims this was a moment
for humanity to show what good it was capable of. The 'patronising' is from the
fact the humanity doesn't need the Doctor's permission to make their decisions.

The plot wasted a lot of time on the parasites rather than properly setting up
the conflict between Clara and the Doctor. I think that conflict could've been
set up with a smaller macguffin than the moon vs earth.
Post by Agamemnon
Are there no competent scientists left on the planet in 2049 to give advice
on what to do, that Clara has to call a referendum of all the stupids?
In the real world (TM) you have to make life changing decisions (should you
marry? should you take that job? should you go to university? will you pray to
some god?) where you simply cannot know what all the consequences will be. And
so you have to guess, and such guesses can depend on your character rather than
your knowledge.

However if the Doctor knows all the consequences, why doesn't he just tell? Who
is he to use these events to illuminate the character of humanity and then judge
humanity. After all do you think Prime Minister looks rather tired?
Post by Agamemnon
How could the creature that hatched out of the egg fly in space where there
is no atmosphere to fly in?
Space whales. Space vampire bats.
Post by Agamemnon
At least there wasn't any of that Promised Land rubbish in it.
Is that a promise?
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
TB
2014-10-06 01:03:00 UTC
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Post by Siri Crews
Post by Agamemnon
New companion... don't like her.
But...but...she's a future president. Show some respect for your betters, the
USA! USA! USA! (Why does that remind me of a babboon troop?)
Since the kid in question goes to school at a famous British school (the same one the Doctor Who series started at in 1963!), I assume that she is a British citizen. This means that she isn't eligible to be elected US President! (Or will she obtain a fake US birth certificate like some people think that Obama did!?).
Post by Siri Crews
Overall the episode assumes that with NASA out of the low earth orbit
transportation business, NASA is shutting down. And therefore China, India,
Europe, and everyone else is shutting down.
Why would the demise of NASA cause all the other space nations to shut down their programs too?
Post by Siri Crews
Post by Agamemnon
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
Why couldn't we have private companies make nukes by the year 2049?
Post by Siri Crews
and one evening in walks Dinsdale with a couple of big
lads, one of whom was carrying a tactical nuclear missile.
They said I had bought one of their fruit machines and
would I pay for it.
Post by Agamemnon
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere.
Bury the bombs underground.
Siri Crews
2014-10-06 01:56:51 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by TB
Since the kid in question goes to school at a famous British school (the same
one the Doctor Who series started at in 1963!), I assume that she is a
British citizen. This means that she isn't eligible to be elected US
If her mother gave birth her to in the US, that would make her native born US
citizen. Even if she is immediately taken back to England and grows up there,
she remains a US citizen unless she renounces that. If no, once she's 35 and
lived in the US for 9 years she becomes eligible.

Either that or the writers don't know about US laws. I don't know the English
laws about citizenship and Parliament elgibility, but I would research it before
putting in a story.
Post by TB
Post by Siri Crews
Overall the episode assumes that with NASA out of the low earth orbit
transportation business, NASA is shutting down. And therefore China, India,
Europe, and everyone else is shutting down.
Why would the demise of NASA cause all the other space nations to shut down
their programs too?
It wouldn't. And even NASA isn't demising. NASA is research organisation, not a
taxi service. They've researched the technology of low earth orbit transport to
death. Now they're turning it over to private companies.
Post by TB
Why couldn't we have private companies make nukes by the year 2049?
As long as they don't have offices in Teheran.
Post by TB
Bury the bombs underground.
That's what the moon did for them.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Defenders of Anarchy.
TB
2014-12-25 20:11:49 UTC
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Spoilers:

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal, but the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks black, not blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders screaming?

I just saw the Doctor make a big leap, bigger then he should be able to do in Earth gravity.
Daniel60
2018-07-07 12:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal, but
the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks black, not
blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the rarefied
atmosphere, you can hear them.
--
Daniel
Timothy Bruening
2018-07-07 13:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Daniel60
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal, but
the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks black, not
blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the rarefied
atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would need to produce the scream?
Daniel60
2018-07-07 14:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal,
but the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks
black, not blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders
screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the
rarefied atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would need to produce the scream?
Not "Without an atmosphere", Tim, just a very, very, rarefied
atmosphere. O.K., maybe very, very, very, rarefied!!
--
Daniel
Timothy Bruening
2018-07-07 17:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal,
but the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks
black, not blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders
screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the
rarefied atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would need to
produce the scream?
Not "Without an atmosphere", Tim, just a very, very, rarefied
atmosphere. O.K., maybe very, very, very, rarefied!!
That would make it hard for the spiders to breathe in enough air to pass across their vocal cords.
solar penguin
2018-07-08 06:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 07/07/18 18:52, Tim typed...
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by TB
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth
normal, but the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky
looks black, not blue). How then can we hear the Moon
spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the
rarefied atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would
need to produce the scream?
Not "Without an atmosphere", Tim, just a very, very, rarefied
atmosphere. O.K., maybe very, very, very, rarefied!!
That would make it hard for the spiders to breathe in enough air to
pass across their vocal cords.
Maybe they scream telepathically?
The Doctor
2018-07-08 12:41:59 UTC
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Post by solar penguin
On 07/07/18 18:52, Tim typed...
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
Post by TB
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth
normal, but the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky
looks black, not blue). How then can we hear the Moon
spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the
rarefied atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would
need to produce the scream?
Not "Without an atmosphere", Tim, just a very, very, rarefied
atmosphere. O.K., maybe very, very, very, rarefied!!
That would make it hard for the spiders to breathe in enough air to
pass across their vocal cords.
Maybe they scream telepathically?
Quit true.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Our great weariness comes from work not done. -Eric Hoffer
The Doctor
2018-07-07 15:35:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Daniel60
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal, but
the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks black, not
blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the rarefied
atmosphere, you can hear them.
Without an atmosphere, how can they obtain the air they would need to produce the scream?
Good question.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
By the work one knows the workmen. -Jean De La Fontaine
The Doctor
2018-07-07 15:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Daniel60
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
The Moon's gravity has somehow been increased to Earth normal, but
the atmosphere still seems rareafied (The day sky looks black, not
blue). How then can we hear the Moon spiders screaming?
The spiders scream very, very, very, loud!! So in even the rarefied
atmosphere, you can hear them.
--
Daniel
Ah!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
By the work one knows the workmen. -Jean De La Fontaine
TB
2015-05-09 19:02:22 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
Mike M
2015-05-09 19:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.

Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
solar penguin
2015-05-09 20:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.

Or maybe the Doctor was bulshitting. He does that sometimes.

Or maybe the whole episode never really happened, and we all just and a
nightmarish collective hallucination that we must never speak of again.
(This last one would have the advantage of explaining all the other plot
holes as well.)
Mike M
2015-05-09 22:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Or maybe the Doctor was bulshitting. He does that sometimes.
Or maybe the whole episode never really happened, and we all just and a
nightmarish collective hallucination that we must never speak of again.
(This last one would have the advantage of explaining all the other plot
holes as well.)
There are several episodes of Doctor Who that I'd like that to be true of.
Including, unfortunately, no less than 6 of the last season.

(Robots of Sherwood, Listen, Kill the Moon, In the Forest of the Night,
Dark Water, and Death In Heaven. The last two not because the Master is
female - though Mary Poppins is less forgivable - but because the Cybermen
plot is shit).
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
TB
2015-05-10 00:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Mike M
2015-05-10 04:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies
born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Then they'd have to amend the Constitution to eliminate the term "natural
born citizen" thus closing one door while opening the other (that any legal
Citizen of long enough standing could be President).
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
TB
2016-01-05 18:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies
born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Then they'd have to amend the Constitution to eliminate the term "natural
born citizen" thus closing one door while opening the other (that any legal
Citizen of long enough standing could be President).
I expect that they would push and amendment that says that a person born inside the US is a natural born citizen only if at least one of his/her parents is either a legal resident or a citizen.
TB
2016-07-05 22:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies
born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Then they'd have to amend the Constitution to eliminate the term "natural
born citizen" thus closing one door while opening the other (that any legal
Citizen of long enough standing could be President).
Pass an Amendment that says "People born to people who are in the US illegally shall not be deemed to be natural born US citizens".
The Doctor
2015-05-10 12:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Weird one.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
TB
2015-05-18 02:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Doctor
Post by TB
Post by solar penguin
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon
in 2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President
of the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was
BORN in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her
birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to
allow non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
Or maybe she was born prematurely when her parents were on holiday in
America. The last chance for a trip abroad with just the two of them
before the baby was born, but jetlag interfered with the mother's body
rhythms and caused the baby to come early.
Some in the GOP are pushing to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies born in the US to non-United Statesians.
Weird one.
I've heard of wealthy Chinese couples visiting the US so that they can give birth of a "natural born US citizen".
TB
2015-05-10 00:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!

When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Post by Mike M
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
--
Mike M
2015-05-10 04:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be
needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Technically none of the first nine presidents of the USA was born in the
USA, as they were born before the USA was created.

Actually, if you read the relevant Article carefully, you'll see that there
are some awkward commas in it, and that either a) the term natural born
citizen might be the part that only applies at the adoption of the
Constitution (so natural born was meant to refer to those born in the
Colonies at that time): or b) the term Citizen of the United States is
meant to be a disambiguation or restatement of "natural born citizen" in
the same sense, and therefore the WHOLE of the first half of the Article
was meant to apply only as at the time of the Constitution. Which means
that only the second half really applies - one needs to be 35 and a
Resident for 14 years or more.

Lawyers love this kind of ambiguity, it's why many legal documents avoid
commas altogether. The meaning of Article II, Section 1, has never been
tested in the courts yet.

solar penguin's suggestions are simpler, though.
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
The Doctor
2015-05-10 12:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be
needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Technically none of the first nine presidents of the USA was born in the
USA, as they were born before the USA was created.
Actually, if you read the relevant Article carefully, you'll see that there
are some awkward commas in it, and that either a) the term natural born
citizen might be the part that only applies at the adoption of the
Constitution (so natural born was meant to refer to those born in the
Colonies at that time): or b) the term Citizen of the United States is
meant to be a disambiguation or restatement of "natural born citizen" in
the same sense, and therefore the WHOLE of the first half of the Article
was meant to apply only as at the time of the Constitution. Which means
that only the second half really applies - one needs to be 35 and a
Resident for 14 years or more.
Lawyers love this kind of ambiguity, it's why many legal documents avoid
commas altogether. The meaning of Article II, Section 1, has never been
tested in the courts yet.
solar penguin's suggestions are simpler, though.
Now is the time to test their constitution.
Post by Mike M
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
Pudentame
2015-05-18 01:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be
needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Technically none of the first nine presidents of the USA was born in the
USA, as they were born before the USA was created.
Actually, if you read the relevant Article carefully, you'll see that there
are some awkward commas in it, and that either a) the term natural born
citizen might be the part that only applies at the adoption of the
Constitution (so natural born was meant to refer to those born in the
Colonies at that time): or b) the term Citizen of the United States is
meant to be a disambiguation or restatement of "natural born citizen" in
the same sense, and therefore the WHOLE of the first half of the Article
was meant to apply only as at the time of the Constitution. Which means
that only the second half really applies - one needs to be 35 and a
Resident for 14 years or more.
You're forgetting that the United States existed for 10 years before
the Constitution was adopted.

The Articles of Confederation provided a framework for the operation
of the Continental Congress since 1777, although they were not
formally ratified until March 1, 1781.

The Constitution was written in 1787 and ratified by the requisite 3/4
of the states with representatives attending the Constitutional
Convention on September 13, 1788.

The final act of the Articles Congress was to dissolve itself on
March 4, 1789 to make way for the new First Congress which began its
first session under the Constitution that same day.

At the time the US Constitution was ratified, anyone seeking the
presidency would have to have been born in 1753 (or earlier), been a
resident in the colonies/states from 1774 onwards and have been a
Citizen of the United States under the Articles of Confederation.

Seven signers of the Constitution were born on foreign soil. All were
eligible under the prior residence & citizenship requirements,
although William Jackson, Secretary of the Constitutional Convention,
did not become eligible by age until 1794.

I think only Alexander Hamilton had actual Presidential aspirations.

James McHenry - Maryland - b. November 16, 1753 Ballymena, County
Antrim, Ireland

Pierce Butler - South Carolina - b. July 11, 1744 County Carlow,
Ireland

Alexander Hamilton - New York - b. January 11, 1755 or 1757
Charlestown, Nevis, British West Indies

William Paterson - New Jersey - b. December 24, 1745 County Antrim,
Ireland

Thomas Fitzsimons - Pennsylvania - b. 1741 Ballikilty, Co.
Wexford,Ireland

James Wilson - Pennsylvania - b. September 14, 1742 Carskerdo,
Scotland

William Jackson - Secretary of the Convention - b. March 9, 1759
Cumberland, England [became eligible by age in 1794]
Post by Mike M
Lawyers love this kind of ambiguity, it's why many legal documents avoid
commas altogether. The meaning of Article II, Section 1, has never been
tested in the courts yet.
solar penguin's suggestions are simpler, though.
The Doctor
2015-05-18 14:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be
needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Technically none of the first nine presidents of the USA was born in the
USA, as they were born before the USA was created.
Actually, if you read the relevant Article carefully, you'll see that there
are some awkward commas in it, and that either a) the term natural born
citizen might be the part that only applies at the adoption of the
Constitution (so natural born was meant to refer to those born in the
Colonies at that time): or b) the term Citizen of the United States is
meant to be a disambiguation or restatement of "natural born citizen" in
the same sense, and therefore the WHOLE of the first half of the Article
was meant to apply only as at the time of the Constitution. Which means
that only the second half really applies - one needs to be 35 and a
Resident for 14 years or more.
You're forgetting that the United States existed for 10 years before
the Constitution was adopted.
The Articles of Confederation provided a framework for the operation
of the Continental Congress since 1777, although they were not
formally ratified until March 1, 1781.
The Constitution was written in 1787 and ratified by the requisite 3/4
of the states with representatives attending the Constitutional
Convention on September 13, 1788.
The final act of the Articles Congress was to dissolve itself on
March 4, 1789 to make way for the new First Congress which began its
first session under the Constitution that same day.
At the time the US Constitution was ratified, anyone seeking the
presidency would have to have been born in 1753 (or earlier), been a
resident in the colonies/states from 1774 onwards and have been a
Citizen of the United States under the Articles of Confederation.
Seven signers of the Constitution were born on foreign soil. All were
eligible under the prior residence & citizenship requirements,
although William Jackson, Secretary of the Constitutional Convention,
did not become eligible by age until 1794.
I think only Alexander Hamilton had actual Presidential aspirations.
James McHenry - Maryland - b. November 16, 1753 Ballymena, County
Antrim, Ireland
Pierce Butler - South Carolina - b. July 11, 1744 County Carlow,
Ireland
Alexander Hamilton - New York - b. January 11, 1755 or 1757
Charlestown, Nevis, British West Indies
William Paterson - New Jersey - b. December 24, 1745 County Antrim,
Ireland
Thomas Fitzsimons - Pennsylvania - b. 1741 Ballikilty, Co.
Wexford,Ireland
James Wilson - Pennsylvania - b. September 14, 1742 Carskerdo,
Scotland
William Jackson - Secretary of the Convention - b. March 9, 1759
Cumberland, England [became eligible by age in 1794]
Post by Mike M
Lawyers love this kind of ambiguity, it's why many legal documents avoid
commas altogether. The meaning of Article II, Section 1, has never been
tested in the courts yet.
solar penguin's suggestions are simpler, though.
So from 1776 to 1789 who was techinically in Charge of the USA?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
TB
2016-07-05 22:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be
needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Technically none of the first nine presidents of the USA was born in the
USA, as they were born before the USA was created.
But they were born in territories that would BECOME part of the US!
The Doctor
2015-05-10 12:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Post by Mike M
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
--
Like the Canadian-born , in fact, Calgary -born Texas Republican Candidate?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
TB
2016-07-05 22:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Doctor
Post by TB
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
I can't imagine the GOP ever agreeing to such a law! The GOP would be needed, since a Constitutional Amendment would be needed!
When was the last time non-native citizens were allowed to become President?
Post by Mike M
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
--
Like the Canadian-born , in fact, Calgary -born Texas Republican Candidate?
His Mom was a US citizen.
Pudentame
2015-05-17 23:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).

2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.

It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens

Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
become President would include:

Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912

George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).

John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.

Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).

3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
The Doctor
2015-05-18 00:23:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
TB
2015-05-18 02:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Doctor
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is any baby born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Mike M
2015-05-18 06:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by The Doctor
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is any baby
born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world. In the
UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at least one parent
is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident of the UK.
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
The Doctor
2015-05-18 14:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by The Doctor
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is any baby
born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world. In the
UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at least one parent
is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident of the UK.
What about Commonwealth Countries?
Post by Mike M
--
So much universe, and so little time. - Sir Terry Pratchett
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
Daniel60
2018-07-09 13:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article
<Snip>
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is
any baby born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world.
In the UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at
least one parent is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident
of the UK.
What about Commonwealth Countries?
Ah!! The U.K. is a Commonwealth Country, idiot, .... or, more,
correctly, several Commonwealth countries!!
--
Daniel
The Doctor
2018-07-09 14:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Daniel60
In article
<Snip>
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is
any baby born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world.
In the UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at
least one parent is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident
of the UK.
What about Commonwealth Countries?
Ah!! The U.K. is a Commonwealth Country, idiot, .... or, more,
correctly, several Commonwealth countries!!
--
Daniel
Go on!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Our great weariness comes from work not done. -Eric Hoffer
Daniel60
2018-07-10 09:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Doctor
Post by Daniel60
In article
<Snip>
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is
any baby born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world.
In the UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at
least one parent is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident
of the UK.
What about Commonwealth Countries?
Ah!! The U.K. is a Commonwealth Country, idiot, .... or, more,
correctly, several Commonwealth countries!!
Go on!
Go on .... to what ... to where ... to when!!
--
Daniel
TB
2016-07-05 22:31:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by The Doctor
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is any baby
born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
Jus soli now applies in less than 1in 6 countries around the world. In the
UK it was "modified" in 1981 so that it only applies if at least one parent
is a British citizen or a legal permanent resident of the UK.
So it would be kosher to do the same in the US!
The Doctor
2015-05-18 14:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TB
Post by The Doctor
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
Isn't Jus Soli universal?
Does Jus Soli apply to anyone born in the United Kingdom? (Is any baby born in the UK an automatic UK citizen?).
I know I am. I have no ambition of taking up any Republican Citizenship
thank you.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
UK! Vote LDem on 7 May 2015!!
TB
2015-05-18 02:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Pudentame
Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
What was the status of kids born in the Confederate States during the Civil War? After all, the Confederate States made up an independent nation, so any kids born there would have been born OUTSIDE the US!
Post by Pudentame
2. Another possibility would be if Miss Courtney were the child of
American Citizens born on foreign soil.
It has been recognized by US Law since "The Naturalization Act of
1790" stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that
may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born citizens
Prior examples of persons born outside the U.S. deemed eligible under
the Constitution's provision that only a "natural born citizen" can
Barry Goldwater - born in Arizona before it became a state in 1912
George W. Romney - Mitt's daddy; born in a Mormon Colony in Mexico
before the Mexican Revolution forced his parents to flee back to the
U.S. (from which they fled when Utah outlawed polygamy).
John McCain - born in Panama while his father was stationed in the
Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
Ted Cruz - born 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to a natural born
American mother and a Cuban refugee father (who did not become a
naturalized American Citizen until 2005).
3. A third possibility is that The Doctor was taking the Mickey out.
How could the Doctor have taken Rose's former boyfriend Mickey out to dinner during this episode? I didn't see him anywhere about!:)
solar penguin
2015-05-18 13:36:21 UTC
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Post by TB
Post by Pudentame
1. A child born in the United States, even to parents who are not
citizens, is a natural born citizen "Jus soli" (by right of the soil).
The only exception is for children born to parents who are foreign
diplomats accredited to the United States (including diplomats at the
UN).
What was the status of kids born in the Confederate States during the
Civil War? After all, the Confederate States made up an independent
nation, so any kids born there would have been born OUTSIDE the US!
The Union never officially recognised the Confederacy as a separate
independent nation, so officially the kids would still have been born
inside the US.
TB
2016-01-05 18:08:32 UTC
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Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
When was the last time non-native citizens were able to become President?
Post by Mike M
Probably so they can elect Arnie, or maybe Russell Crowe.
The current political trend in the US is heading in the opposite direction--- that of ending the practice of automatic citizenship for anyone born on US territory.
TB
2016-07-05 22:22:59 UTC
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Post by Mike M
Post by TB
Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
The Doctor says that Miss Courtney (the black gal he took to the Moon in
2049) will become President of the US. How can she become President of
the US? She is a child in Great Britain, so I assume that she was BORN
in Great Britain. If she was born in the US, I demand to see her birth certificate!
It is probably easier to assume that the law is changed in America to allow
non native citizens to once more assume the highest office.
With Donald Trump on the rampage, I fail to see how the law would be changed to allow non-Native citizens to become President!

When in the past have non-Native citizens been allowed to serve as President?
TB
2016-01-05 18:03:05 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
I will start my review by giving this week's episode 10/10 as usual.
New companion... don't like her.
-1 point.
The most idiotic and cringe worthy Doctor Who story since "Love and
Monsters", excluding "Fear Her", and even more ridiculous than "42".
-1 point.
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
Why not? Its called nuclear proliferation.
Post by Agamemnon
-1 point
Tim Bruening
2017-01-12 08:03:28 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
So we are supposed to believe that a bunch of incompetents are sent to the
moon by a private company, using a second hand space shuttle carrying 100
nuclear bombs to kill what's up there?
Earth would have been in chaos from the immense tides generated by the 6 times more massive Moon. The tides would certainly have swamped Cape Canaveral!
Post by Agamemnon
-1 point
Where the hell did they get the nuclear bombs from? Does every private
company make their own nukes in 2049 in the same way Ace made explosives?
maybe they got them on the black market, which would have flourished in the chaos generated by the immense tides!
Post by Agamemnon
Even if it were an egg, 100, not even 1000 nukes wouldn't have made any
difference to it if they were all set of on the surface, because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere (the absence of which was pointed out in the
actual episode itself, of which I have something more to say about later) as
any of their explosives experts (Danny Hargreves is it?) would have been
able to tell them. Even if they'd been buried deep under ground they
couldn't have done more than vaporise a few miles of rock.
The nukes would generate shockwaves which could kill the fetus.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did all the extra mass on the moon come from? I mean physical matter,
not the result of some pseudo gravity device. It was never explained.
I am thinking the same mechanism the Rochness ship used to attract the material that created Earth!
Tim Bruening
2017-02-06 05:39:37 UTC
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The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise a naturally occurring gravity generator.
The Doctor
2017-02-06 16:08:56 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
Tim Bruening
2017-02-06 17:13:00 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
The Doctor
2017-02-06 23:12:36 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
Tim Bruening
2018-01-26 22:42:18 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
The Doctor
2018-01-26 22:43:55 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthday 29 Jan 1969 BOrn Redhill,Surrey,England , UK!
Tim Bruening
2018-01-26 22:51:06 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch. I surmise
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
The Doctor
2018-01-26 22:53:37 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthday 29 Jan 1969 BOrn Redhill,Surrey,England , UK!
Tim Bruening
2018-01-27 01:10:34 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
So the egg inside the Moon is what produced all that extra gravity?
The Doctor
2018-01-27 01:34:42 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
So the egg inside the Moon is what produced all that extra gravity?
The moon was the egg.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthday 29 Jan 1969 BOrn Redhill,Surrey,England , UK!
Tim Bruening
2018-01-27 03:33:48 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
So the egg inside the Moon is what produced all that extra gravity?
The moon was the egg.
Okay, the baby in the Moon-egg!
The Doctor
2018-01-27 14:04:22 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
In article
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
So the egg inside the Moon is what produced all that extra gravity?
The moon was the egg.
Okay, the baby in the Moon-egg!
Yes.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Birthday 29 Jan 1969 BOrn Redhill,Surrey,England , UK!
Tim Bruening
2018-01-27 14:09:40 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
In article
Post by Tim Bruening
The Moon's gravity increased 6 fold as it got ready to hatch.
I surmise
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
a naturally occurring gravity generator.
And new egg.
The new egg was the gravity generator?
No.
Then what made the extra gravity?
Natural restoration.
What natural restoration process increases the gravity 6-fold?
recall the egg effect?
So the egg inside the Moon is what produced all that extra gravity?
The moon was the egg.
Okay, the baby in the Moon-egg!
Yes.
How did the baby increase the gravity?
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-05 03:31:43 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the one
that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
I surmise that the purpose of the bombs was to kill the moon baby via shock from the blast so that baby won't hatch and shatter the moon!
The Doctor
2018-03-05 05:58:04 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
And like even if these nukes were more powerful than any nukes available
today and positioned correctly so as to blow up the moon, I mean the egg
shell mistaken for the moon why would it have been any better than just
letting the mummy spider that was incubating inside it just hatch? Both
event's would have sent rocks hurtling towards the earth larger than the one
that wiped out the dinosaurs, I mean Silurians.
I surmise that the purpose of the bombs was to kill the moon baby via
shock from the blast so that baby won't hatch and shatter the moon!
Well it makes waves.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
To make pleasures pleasant, shorten them. -Charles Buxton
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-05 13:14:38 UTC
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How can we see steam rising in the vacuum of the Moon's surface?

The Doctor thinks that humans taste like chicken to Moon spiders.
The Doctor
2018-03-05 15:09:51 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
How can we see steam rising in the vacuum of the Moon's surface?
The Doctor thinks that humans taste like chicken to Moon spiders.
Script reference please.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
To make pleasures pleasant, shorten them. -Charles Buxton
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