Discussion:
S6E03 The Curse of the Black Spot
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Agamemnon
2011-05-07 20:28:19 UTC
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This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.

How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?

Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.

On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?

How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?

Why did it have to rip-off the idea of a hologram doctor from Star Trek
Voyager if it was going to add nothing to it?

How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans. On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?

How on earth can mirrors or any other kind of reflective surface form a
portal to another universe and not anything else? Pure nonsense just like
the idea that the siren only came because of the presence of water, yer like
the entire ship was surrounded with water and the Doctor needed to take the
like off the water barrel to summon it. Oh, and like nothing reflected off
anyone's eyes. It would have been better just to have the siren appearing at
random.

While the acting was good the pirates were unconvincing because the story
was unconvincing. The plotting was terrible and sounded like the writer kept
changing his mind as he was going along couldn't be bothered to rewrite the
previous pages to reflect the changes so decided to use a throwaway line
instead, disregard everything I've said up the this point, time and time
again.

There's also the part where the Captain makes the Doctor walk the plank and
the very next second they're best buddies.

Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.

The ship didn't look convincing either. It looked like the outdoor scenes
were filmed indoors with a backdrop yet it was actually shot on a real ship
in dock.

On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.

Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move. And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.

A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let down
by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.

8/10
Stephen Wilson
2011-05-07 20:44:02 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let
down by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I pretty much agreed with everything you said.

But after blasting the story to smithereens on virtually every front, you
give it 8/10? Remarkable.
p***@aol.com
2011-05-07 20:52:43 UTC
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On May 7, 4:44 pm, "Stephen Wilson"
Post by Stephen Wilson
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let
down by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I pretty much agreed with everything you said.
But after blasting the story to smithereens on virtually every front, you
give it 8/10? Remarkable.
I think Aggy gives 7 points for not being written by RTD or part of
the RTD era.

Phil
Agamemnon
2011-05-07 20:58:56 UTC
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<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:d4a6333c-2de6-4a70-bcd9-***@e13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 4:44 pm, "Stephen Wilson"
Post by Stephen Wilson
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let
down by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I pretty much agreed with everything you said.
But after blasting the story to smithereens on virtually every front, you
give it 8/10? Remarkable.
<<<I think Aggy gives 7 points for not being written by RTD or part of
the RTD era.>>>

LOL...
Agamemnon
2011-05-07 20:55:38 UTC
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Post by Stephen Wilson
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let
down by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I pretty much agreed with everything you said.
But after blasting the story to smithereens on virtually every front, you
give it 8/10? Remarkable.
Well I did give Vampires of Venice 9/10 I think and I thought that was the
worst last series at the time, so obviously I had to give The Curse of the
Black Spot something lower.
Rob Moir
2011-05-07 21:05:19 UTC
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Post by Stephen Wilson
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let
down by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I pretty much agreed with everything you said.
But after blasting the story to smithereens on virtually every front, you
give it 8/10? Remarkable.
I can only assume that Agememnon's scoring scale runs in the opposite
direction to most other people's. Either that or the script writer would
need to come around to his house and vomit on the screen to get a lower
score than 7/10
maffster
2011-05-07 20:54:53 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.
How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?
The coughing is a symptom of his illness so has probably been going on
for a while. As to why he hasn't be heard before, who knows. Perhaps
nobody has been in the gun powder room - nobody has noticed the key
was missing until the Doctor arrives.
Post by Agamemnon
Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.
On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?
How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?
Why did it have to rip-off the idea of a hologram doctor from Star Trek
Voyager if it was going to add nothing to it?
He did. He added the idea he used in The Doctor Dances with the faulty
medical facility fixing people who don't need it.
Post by Agamemnon
How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans. On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?
They had been put to sleep for only having minor cuts not for having
terminal illnesses. Once woken they would be fine.
Post by Agamemnon
How on earth can mirrors or any other kind of reflective surface form a
portal to another universe and not anything else? Pure nonsense just like
the idea that the siren only came because of the presence of water, yer like
the entire ship was surrounded with water and the Doctor needed to take the
like off the water barrel to summon it. Oh, and like nothing reflected off
anyone's eyes. It would have been better just to have the siren appearing at
random.
If she could just turn up at random, there would have been no safe
places in which to have all the dialogue, so a contrivance was
required.
Post by Agamemnon
While the acting was good the pirates were unconvincing because the story
was unconvincing. The plotting was terrible and sounded like the writer kept
changing his mind as he was going along couldn't be bothered to rewrite the
previous pages to reflect the changes so decided to use a throwaway line
instead, disregard everything I've said up the this point, time and time
again.
There's also the part where the Captain makes the Doctor walk the plank and
the very next second they're best buddies.
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Post by Agamemnon
The ship didn't look convincing either. It looked like the outdoor scenes
were filmed indoors with a backdrop yet it was actually shot on a real ship
in dock.
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move. And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
At the end we saw them go to the binary star system that the Captain
and the Doctor looked at from the deck of the pirate ship earlier in
the episode, so I assumed they were in this universe. However you have
correctly pointed out that no explanation was given.
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let down
by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
I miss your breakdown of how you arrive at your score Aggy. You've
just panned the episode, yet given it a good 8 out of 10!
--
Mr Maff
Tim Bruening
2016-09-25 21:03:36 UTC
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Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Why didn't the pirates have swords or guns? How do they expect to loot other ships without any weapons?
Tim Bruening
2017-03-01 17:10:36 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Why didn't the pirates have swords or guns? How do they expect to loot other ships without any weapons?
On rewatching the episode, I did see swords and guns in th e hands of the pirates! They also had explosives.
The Doctor
2017-03-01 22:23:14 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Why didn't the pirates have swords or guns? How do they expect to loot
other ships without any weapons?
On rewatching the episode, I did see swords and guns in th e hands of the
pirates! They also had explosives.
Who is talking to whom?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
Tim Bruening
2017-03-02 10:21:10 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Why didn't the pirates have swords or guns? How do they expect to loot
other ships without any weapons?
On rewatching the episode, I did see swords and guns in th e hands of the
pirates! They also had explosives.
Who is talking to whom?
I am merely typing.
The Doctor
2017-03-02 12:58:04 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the
crew were
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been
easily capable
Post by The Doctor
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by maffster
Post by Agamemnon
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
The didn't have swords, so had no weapons to run her through with.
Why didn't the pirates have swords or guns? How do they expect to loot
other ships without any weapons?
On rewatching the episode, I did see swords and guns in th e hands of the
pirates! They also had explosives.
Who is talking to whom?
I am merely typing.
Areyou talking to yourself?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-26 05:22:44 UTC
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Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured away by banshee?
The Doctor
2018-03-26 15:07:07 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured away by banshee?
You mean the ship's interface.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
We are slow to believe that which if believed would hurt our feelings. -Ovid
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-26 18:06:01 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured away by banshee?
You mean the ship's interface.
Yes.
The Doctor
2018-03-27 00:29:52 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by banshee?
You mean the ship's interface.
Yes.
Please say so.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
We are slow to believe that which if believed would hurt our feelings. -Ovid
Timothy Bruening
2018-03-27 01:54:04 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by banshee?
You mean the ship's interface.
Yes.
Please say so.
"So".
The Doctor
2018-03-27 14:34:01 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by banshee?
You mean the ship's interface.
Yes.
Please say so.
"So".
argh.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
We are slow to believe that which if believed would hurt our feelings. -Ovid
Timothy Bruening
2018-05-17 06:33:38 UTC
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Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured away by the ship's interfacethat acted like a Siren?
The Doctor
2018-05-17 13:08:54 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by the ship's interfacethat acted like a Siren?
Hypnosis!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
He will live ill who does not know how to die well. -Seneca
Timothy Bruening
2018-05-17 16:58:59 UTC
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by the ship's interfacethat acted like a Siren?
Hypnosis!
Which planted a "Do not tie up Black Spotters"?
The Doctor
2018-05-17 20:52:13 UTC
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Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Why weren't the Black Spot people tied up to keep them from being lured
away by the ship's interfacethat acted like a Siren?
Hypnosis!
Which planted a "Do not tie up Black Spotters"?
Could well be.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
He will live ill who does not know how to die well. -Seneca
marc_CH
2011-05-07 21:32:17 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let down
by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
8/10
How can you lambast it then give it 8/10?
--
marc
solar penguin
2011-05-07 21:44:22 UTC
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Post by Agamemnon
This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.
Are you serious? I thought it was the second-best story in either of
the Matt Smith series so far. (Mind you, after the last couple of
weeks, _anything_ would seem good in comparison, so that might be
biasing me in its favour!)
Post by Agamemnon
How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?
Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.
On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?
True, the boy was a problem. He should never have been included in
the story at all. It's that old nonsense of "Just stick a kid in the
story so kids will have someone to identify with," even though they
all already identify with the Doctor and the companions.

Still, on the bright side, at least this kid was just a kid, and
_not_ a regenerating, paradoxical, time-headed baby in a spacesuit,
so I'm prepared to overlook any problems with him.
Post by Agamemnon
How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?
Sufficiently advanced alien tech?
Post by Agamemnon
Why did it have to rip-off the idea of a hologram doctor from Star Trek
Voyager if it was going to add nothing to it?
Now you're just being silly. They added something to it. They added
the idea of the hologram doctor being a beautiful siren luring injured
sailors to their doom. When did the Voyager doctor ever do that?
Post by Agamemnon
How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans.
That was a big, big problem. It seems like alien medicine is never
done sensibly in DW. Either it gets things totally wrong, then it
turns into a total miracle cure, but never anything in between. (e.g.
The Empty Child, and New Earth)
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?
The breathing tubes were only necessary for breathing-related problems
(i.e. Rory's drowning and the boy's respiratory disease) but not for
cuts and scratches. That's one thing that the episode did seem to get
right.
Post by Agamemnon
How on earth can mirrors or any other kind of reflective surface form a
portal to another universe and not anything else? Pure nonsense
It sounds like the kind of magical idea you'd get in a fantasy story.
I assumed the ship came from a universe where the laws of nature were
closer to magic than science (e.g. Battlefield) and the magic mirrors
were a side effect of that.
Post by Agamemnon
just like
the idea that the siren only came because of the presence of water, yer like
the entire ship was surrounded with water and the Doctor needed to take the
like off the water barrel to summon it.
And the human body is 80% water. Now there's an idea...

Meanwhile, the water barrel was in a locked, dry room, and was the
only way the siren could get into that room.

Plus, in keeping with the magical nature of the story, the reflections
might only exist if we perceive them as existing. If no photons can
get into the barrel to bounce off the water, is there still a
reflection there?
Post by Agamemnon
Oh, and like nothing reflected off
anyone's eyes. It would have been better just to have the siren appearing at
random.
And then there's the problem of why the siren hadn't appeared through
reflective metal before? Why did she confine herself to using water
until she suddenly switched?
Post by Agamemnon
While the acting was good the pirates were unconvincing because the story
was unconvincing. The plotting was terrible and sounded like the writer kept
changing his mind as he was going along couldn't be bothered to rewrite the
previous pages to reflect the changes so decided to use a throwaway line
instead, disregard everything I've said up the this point, time and time
again.
That was weird. But it's one of the things I liked about the story.
It makes a nice change _not_ to see the usual clever-clogs, know-
everything Doctor once in a while.
Post by Agamemnon
There's also the part where the Captain makes the Doctor walk the plank and
the very next second they're best buddies.
Well, that's what the Doctor does best.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
And why did she _think_ she'd be capable of sword fighting them in the
first place. She didn't know how badly afraid they were of getting
cut.
Post by Agamemnon
The ship didn't look convincing either. It looked like the outdoor scenes
were filmed indoors with a backdrop yet it was actually shot on a real ship
in dock.
Do you have a problem with this. Again, that's one of the things I
liked about the episode. That stylised look adds a definite stage-
play feel to it. Same with the very minimalist sets for the
spaceship. You don't see many plays made for television any more, so
this was a welcome return to the old days of television drama. It's
nice to know the BBC can still do it when they want.
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.

If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move.
Presumably, once the Doctor knew what was affecting the TARDIS, he set
the controls to compensate for it.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let down
by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
I once saw a clip of Pirates of the Caribbean. Typical modern-style
rubbish. Let's be glad they didn't do anything like that.

Mind you if they'd gone totally the other way, a pure historical about
pirates might be good. I mean, pirates are exciting enough on their
own without the need for aliens or magic or anything else.
The Doctor
2011-05-07 22:11:28 UTC
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Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.
Are you serious? I thought it was the second-best story in either of
the Matt Smith series so far. (Mind you, after the last couple of
weeks, _anything_ would seem good in comparison, so that might be
biasing me in its favour!)
Post by Agamemnon
How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?
Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.
On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?
True, the boy was a problem. He should never have been included in
the story at all. It's that old nonsense of "Just stick a kid in the
story so kids will have someone to identify with," even though they
all already identify with the Doctor and the companions.
Still, on the bright side, at least this kid was just a kid, and
_not_ a regenerating, paradoxical, time-headed baby in a spacesuit,
so I'm prepared to overlook any problems with him.
Post by Agamemnon
How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?
Sufficiently advanced alien tech?
Post by Agamemnon
Why did it have to rip-off the idea of a hologram doctor from Star Trek
Voyager if it was going to add nothing to it?
Now you're just being silly. They added something to it. They added
the idea of the hologram doctor being a beautiful siren luring injured
sailors to their doom. When did the Voyager doctor ever do that?
Post by Agamemnon
How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans.
That was a big, big problem. It seems like alien medicine is never
done sensibly in DW. Either it gets things totally wrong, then it
turns into a total miracle cure, but never anything in between. (e.g.
The Empty Child, and New Earth)
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?
The breathing tubes were only necessary for breathing-related problems
(i.e. Rory's drowning and the boy's respiratory disease) but not for
cuts and scratches. That's one thing that the episode did seem to get
right.
Post by Agamemnon
How on earth can mirrors or any other kind of reflective surface form a
portal to another universe and not anything else? Pure nonsense
It sounds like the kind of magical idea you'd get in a fantasy story.
I assumed the ship came from a universe where the laws of nature were
closer to magic than science (e.g. Battlefield) and the magic mirrors
were a side effect of that.
Post by Agamemnon
just like
the idea that the siren only came because of the presence of water, yer like
the entire ship was surrounded with water and the Doctor needed to take the
like off the water barrel to summon it.
And the human body is 80% water. Now there's an idea...
Meanwhile, the water barrel was in a locked, dry room, and was the
only way the siren could get into that room.
Plus, in keeping with the magical nature of the story, the reflections
might only exist if we perceive them as existing. If no photons can
get into the barrel to bounce off the water, is there still a
reflection there?
Post by Agamemnon
Oh, and like nothing reflected off
anyone's eyes. It would have been better just to have the siren appearing at
random.
And then there's the problem of why the siren hadn't appeared through
reflective metal before? Why did she confine herself to using water
until she suddenly switched?
Post by Agamemnon
While the acting was good the pirates were unconvincing because the story
was unconvincing. The plotting was terrible and sounded like the writer kept
changing his mind as he was going along couldn't be bothered to rewrite the
previous pages to reflect the changes so decided to use a throwaway line
instead, disregard everything I've said up the this point, time and time
again.
That was weird. But it's one of the things I liked about the story.
It makes a nice change _not_ to see the usual clever-clogs, know-
everything Doctor once in a while.
Post by Agamemnon
There's also the part where the Captain makes the Doctor walk the plank and
the very next second they're best buddies.
Well, that's what the Doctor does best.
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
And why did she _think_ she'd be capable of sword fighting them in the
first place. She didn't know how badly afraid they were of getting
cut.
Post by Agamemnon
The ship didn't look convincing either. It looked like the outdoor scenes
were filmed indoors with a backdrop yet it was actually shot on a real ship
in dock.
Do you have a problem with this. Again, that's one of the things I
liked about the episode. That stylised look adds a definite stage-
play feel to it. Same with the very minimalist sets for the
spaceship. You don't see many plays made for television any more, so
this was a welcome return to the old days of television drama. It's
nice to know the BBC can still do it when they want.
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.
If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move.
Presumably, once the Doctor knew what was affecting the TARDIS, he set
the controls to compensate for it.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Post by Agamemnon
A missed opportunity to do something like Pirates of the Caribbean let down
by terrible writing with not much thought going into a story or plot.
I once saw a clip of Pirates of the Caribbean. Typical modern-style
rubbish. Let's be glad they didn't do anything like that.
Mind you if they'd gone totally the other way, a pure historical about
pirates might be good. I mean, pirates are exciting enough on their
own without the need for aliens or magic or anything else.
nice thing SP is that we range in opinions.
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Timothy Bruening
2018-04-10 03:46:01 UTC
Permalink
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Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.
If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Why would Avery give up when he has FTL ship?
The Doctor
2018-04-10 03:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.
If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Why would Avery give up when he has FTL ship?
Can he pilot?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
It is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed. -Vida D. Scudder
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-10 06:49:50 UTC
Permalink
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Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.
If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Why would Avery give up when he has FTL ship?
Can he pilot?
Yes, to Demon's Run!
The Doctor
2018-04-10 15:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Agamemnon
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted
doors is a
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The
Keeper of
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
Traken.
Different screwdriver. That one was destroyed in The Visitation.
If you're going for continuity, a more serious error would be that The
Smugglers says that Captain Avery died drunk and in poverty, after
losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who hid it in Cornwall. That
doesn't fit with this episode at all.
Post by Agamemnon
And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly
didn't have
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going
to go in
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar
planet that
Post by The Doctor
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by solar penguin
Post by Agamemnon
they could understand.
IMHO they eventually give up and return to Earth where Avery dies
drunk and in poverty, after losing his gold to Holy Joe Longfoot who
hides it in Cornwall.
Why would Avery give up when he has FTL ship?
Can he pilot?
Yes, to Demon's Run!
Well he should not give up.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
It is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed. -Vida D. Scudder
Ross
2011-05-07 23:47:55 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Agamemnon
This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.
How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?
Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.
On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?
How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?
...
Post by Agamemnon
How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans. On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?
Yeah! And how could something that kinda looks a bit like a breathing
tube, though not at all like any breathing tube I've ever seen used
medically *not* be a breathing tube! And how could alien medical
technology possibly act differently than the expectations of some
random guy on the internet with no medical training?
Post by Agamemnon
Where did Amy learn to defend herself with a sword. I know the crew were
trying to avoid getting cut but even so they would have been easily capable
of finishing off any untrained swordsman or woman.
Huh. You had to throw in "or woman" there, just to make sure we knew
that you assume that ovaries make you inherently less skilled at
fighting than a bunch of drunken, malnourished 18th century sailors.
Columbus sailed the ocean China Blue
2011-05-08 11:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Agamemnon
This has got to be the worst story in either of the Matt Smith series so
far.
How could the captain's son have survived undetected as a stowaway on such a
tiny ship for eight (or more) days while it was stranded and the crew were
being terrorised by the siren, and then suddenly the Doctor appears and he
instantly gives himself away by his coughing?
Why didn't he know that his father was a pirate when the ship was flying the
Jolly Roger. He must have known the name and port the ship sailed from in
order to get onboard but do pirates actually use ports if they don't want to
get caught? Well they could have used a port if they were acting as the
Queen's privateers but none of this was explained because everything was
rushed and all the important stuff setting up each of the scenes that could
have made it into a good script was left out (or more like the writer didn't
have clue). Oh and like the boy never thought off introducing himself to his
father when the ship was a day at sea.
On top of that how come his mother has to tell him who his father is, but
yet his father is able to recognise him after not seeing him for 3 years,
which means he must have been at home with his son at sometime so how come
they didn't talk?
How could Rory speak normally when he had what looked like a breathing tube
in his throat and his lungs were supposed to be full of water because he was
drowning?
...
Post by Agamemnon
How did the hole the breathing tube would have needed to fit into heal up so
quickly when the tube was removed from Rory and how did his hand heal when
the doctor hologram was unable to heal humans. On top of that how come some
of the captains men were able to walk around in the alien ship without the
tubes if it was established that the hologram could not heal them? Perhaps a
missed out scene where the Doctor reprogrammed it?
Yeah! And how could something that kinda looks a bit like a breathing
tube, though not at all like any breathing tube I've ever seen used
medically *not* be a breathing tube! And how could alien medical
technology possibly act differently than the expectations of some
random guy on the internet with no medical training?
It was their version of an IV, adding medication, oxygen, water, and nutrients
to the blood in the carotid artery.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. In 1492....
Tim Bruening
2017-01-30 05:41:59 UTC
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At one point, all containers of water are closed to keep out the banshee, and the crew has to stay away from water. How does the Doctor expect them to survive.
Tim Bruening
2017-03-01 17:09:43 UTC
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At the end, how does that pirate captain know how to operate a faster than light space ship?
Timothy Bruening
2018-04-10 03:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Upgrade!
Post by Agamemnon
Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move. And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
Alien interface let it go?
The Doctor
2018-04-10 03:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Timothy Bruening
Post by Agamemnon
On top of that, the sonic screwdriver being able to open bolted doors is a
continuity error because it specifically couldn't do that in The Keeper of
Traken.
Upgrade!
Post by Agamemnon
Finally how did the TARDIS get off the alien ship and back to our universe
when it was established that it couldn't move. And why did the Doctor leave
the Captain and his crew to pilot the alien ship, which clearly didn't have
any controls or charts labelled in English. Where were they going to go in
an alien universe with no Earth or any way of finding a similar planet that
they could understand.
Alien interface let it go?
Could.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
It is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed. -Vida D. Scudder
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